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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is up for major construction/criticism/revision so please help!

Tzneetch Lord210

  • MofT 10
  • Shield 10
  • Word of Agony 40
  • Father of Blades 40
  • Armour of damnation 45
  • Talisman of Protection 15
  • Barded Steed 16
Total 386

/* Note: Lord will be placed in unit of Chaos Knights with Blasted Standard to receive 3+ ward from Shooting */

Tzneetch Sorcerer 85


  • lvl 2 35
  • MofT 20
  • 2 x Dispell Scroll 50
  • Barded Steed 16
Total 206

/* Note: Will be within unit of Chaos Knights with War Banner */

Tzneetch Sorcerer #2 85

  • lvl 2 35
  • MofT 20
  • Infernal Puppet 35
  • Spell Familiar 15
  • Blood Curdling Roar 20
  • Disk of Tzneetch 20
Total 230

Fetus the Leechlord 185

/* Note: I find this character to be most effective with a unit of Warriors, they are almost unstoppable with a 5+ regen and poisoned attacks */

15 x Warriors of Chaos 225

  • MofN 30
  • Shields 15
  • Great Weapons 30
  • Full Command 30
  • Rapturous Standard 25
Total 355

15x Marauders on foot 60

  • MofS 10
  • Shields 15
  • Great Weapons 15
Total 100

10x marauders on foot 40

  • MofS 10
  • Shields 10
  • Great Weapons 10
Total 70

5 x Chaos Hounds 30

2 x Chaos Spawn 135

5 x Chaos Knights 200

  • MofN 30
  • Champ 20
  • Standard 20
  • War Banner 25
Total 295

5 x Chaos Knights 200

  • MofN 30
  • Champ 20
  • Standard 20
  • Blasted Standard 40
total 310

Subtotal: 2302 (friendly match)

I have only played 4 games so far, but I am getting the jist of the importance on placement. My friend has always put in a unit of knights, black guard and crossbow men and spearmen, a crossbow bolt warmachine, 2 heavy spellcasters with ring of hotek, a hydra and a dragon lord. I welcome all help!! Thanks.
 

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Schemer
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I suggest you remove detailed point list (or remove all points simply).

Your list seems fine, althought you have to much magic for my taste. By the way, do you deal with the dragon lord using magic? In general I find your list is lacking some fast expendable unit: basically I would consider getting a second unit of dogs and a small unit of marauder horsemen (either bait and flee tactics or khorne cruise missile).

This is up for major construction/criticism/revision so please help!

Tzneetch Lord210

  • MofT 10
  • Shield 10
  • Word of Agony 40
  • Father of Blades 40
  • Armour of damnation 45
  • Talisman of Protection 15
  • Barded Steed 16
Total 386

/* Note: Lord will be placed in unit of Chaos Knights with Blasted Standard to receive 3+ ward from Shooting */

Tzneetch Sorcerer 85


  • lvl 2 35
  • MofT 20
  • 2 x Dispell Scroll 50
  • Barded Steed 16
Total 206

/* Note: Will be within unit of Chaos Knights with War Banner */

Tzneetch Sorcerer #2 85

  • lvl 2 35
  • MofT 20
  • Infernal Puppet 35
  • Spell Familiar 15
  • Blood Curdling Roar 20
  • Disk of Tzneetch 20
Total 230

You can't choose both Spell Familiar and Infernal Puppet for one heroes. These are both magic items from the same category. Did you consider using a BSB hero instead of this image. Use him in the warrior unit and suddenly they become a powerhouse.


Fetus the Leechlord 185

/* Note: I find this character to be most effective with a unit of Warriors, they are almost unstoppable with a 5+ regen and poisoned attacks */

15 x Warriors of Chaos 225

  • MofN 30
  • Shields 15
  • Great Weapons 30
  • Full Command 30
  • Rapturous Standard 25
Total 355

15x Marauders on foot 60

  • MofS 10
  • Shields 15
  • Great Weapons 15
Total 100

Either take a cheap unit of marauders with great weapons or a big unit of 25 with light armour and shield. Any tradeoff is not efficient. If you want great weapons, I suggest you remove 3 marauders, shield and MoS (this is an expendable unit, you don't care if it's going to run except if you plan to use a hero inside).


10x marauders on foot 40

  • MofS 10
  • Shields 10
  • Great Weapons 10
Total 70

Same as above, remove the shield and MoS. You just saved about 50 pts without really diminishing your efficiency if you do this for both units.

5 x Chaos Hounds 30

2 x Chaos Spawn 135

What mark are you using for the spawn. I prefer my spawn cheap. There's another 25 pts from upgrades you can save here.

5 x Chaos Knights 200

  • MofN 30
  • Champ 20
  • Standard 20
  • War Banner 25
Total 295

I suggest to use a musician before a champion. If you were planning to use a hero inside this unit a champion is going to help you for challange yes, but you won't get the look out sir if he shoots you. And since you have 4 knights and 1 champion, every shot will be randomize in the units. Add a hero and suddenly your hero can be targeted with shooting. If you had a musician, your opponent needs to kill 1 knight before happening. You will also bite your tongue everytime you have a draw in close combat and loose because you did'nt pay an extra 12 pts in a unit already costing 295 pts.



5 x Chaos Knights 200

  • MofN 30
  • Champ 20
  • Standard 20
  • Blasted Standard 40
total 310

Excellent choice with the blasted standard. With the point you saved, get these guy an extra knight and a musician.

Subtotal: 2302 (friendly match)

Is your friend playing a 2302 list also or is he using 2250 pts. I personally would'nt care for 2 pts, but 52 ...


I have only played 4 games so far, but I am getting the jist of the importance on placement. My friend has always put in a unit of knights, black guard and crossbow men and spearmen, a crossbow bolt warmachine, 2 heavy spellcasters with ring of hotek, a hydra and a dragon lord. I welcome all help!! Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the reply! Now to comment back...

You can't choose both Spell Familiar and Infernal Puppet for one heroes. These are both magic items from the same category. Did you consider using a BSB hero instead of this image. Use him in the warrior unit and suddenly they become a powerhouse.
As I stated before, I am new, and I should have apologized previously for any errors in my list. I didn't understand that you can only have one magic item for a select hero. However, it makes sense since it's equivalent to a hero taking two swords from the magic list (o.o). If that is the case, Infernal Puppet is a must and I would replace spell familiar with Enchanted Shield for 15.

Your list seems fine, althought you have to much magic for my taste. By the way, do you deal with the dragon lord using magic? In general I find your list is lacking some fast expendable unit: basically I would consider getting a second unit of dogs and a small unit of marauder horsemen (either bait and flee tactics or khorne cruise missile).
I use a heavy magic army because of the need for dispell dice and the amazing powers of pandamonium and flickering fire. If I put in an exhalted hero in the warrior unit with BSB along with Feetus, then that IS a powerhouse...However, how would I combat dark elves with their rerolls for hatred and extra power dice? A combat hero is nice to have but the warriors of chaos are already a unstoppable machine with fetus. But I will take it into consideration!

I did not destroy his army and I didn't even scratch his dragon lord due to inadequacy of strategic knowledge lol! I put a sorc on disc in range of his dragon so I can cast some spells but I failed to realize that the dragon can charge on the fly. Also my knights were caught by a flank charge by the dragon lord and left the rest of my army defenseless. I do not know how to destroy a "all 6s" dragon or his lord but flickering fire is a start because it negates regen and the Chaos lord is a mad house and shouldn't have a problem taking on the dragon...

Either take a cheap unit of marauders with great weapons or a big unit of 25 with light armour and shield. Any tradeoff is not efficient. If you want great weapons, I suggest you remove 3 marauders, shield and MoS (this is an expendable unit, you don't care if it's going to run except if you plan to use a hero inside).


Same as above, remove the shield and MoS. You just saved about 50 pts without really diminishing your efficiency if you do this for both units.
I like your idea on the marauders. I didn't quite understand their place among the warriors except to take hits from shooting units. I like the idea of saving 50 points!! As for hounds, although this may be another topic entirely, what role do they play for WoC and how are they to be played? I usually push them in front of my knights of warriors to take shots off my strong units but what happened last time is the hounds got charged by the hydra which ran thru the hounds into my knights. I ripped the hydra to shreds but after a loss to a couple knights. They just seem to cause panic and I don't like that. Please explain if you are willing to!!


What mark are you using for the spawn. I prefer my spawn cheap. There's another 25 pts from upgrades you can save here.
The spawns are naked. And they have an additional 5 points for no reason, sorry if that threw you off. Two naked spawns are actually only 130 points.

I suggest to use a musician before a champion. If you were planning to use a hero inside this unit a champion is going to help you for challange yes, but you won't get the look out sir if he shoots you. And since you have 4 knights and 1 champion, every shot will be randomize in the units. Add a hero and suddenly your hero can be targeted with shooting. If you had a musician, your opponent needs to kill 1 knight before happening. You will also bite your tongue everytime you have a draw in close combat and loose because you did'nt pay an extra 12 pts in a unit already costing 295 pts.
I didn't read that part about the "look out sir" rule and champions within a unit with a hero/lord. So in order to get the "look out sir" with a hero in the unit, a champion must be excluded? Okay, that's easy. And I save 8 points by buying a musician. Could you elaborate on "your opponent needs to kill 1 knight before happening"? I don't understand what you are referring to.

Excellent choice with the blasted standard. With the point you saved, get these guy an extra knight and a musician.
So this unit has a champion and I plan on including the lord into this unit. Should I remove the champion and buy a musician? With the lord, he will have a 3+ save on shooting which is prolly enough to negate all attacks in time for my knights to kick some butt, but still i'm new and I question everything!

I asked him if he would play 2300 and he agreed, so it's a 2300. If it goes down to 2250 I will try to find 50 points somewhere as this would be an annoyance to him since I already set the bar.

Thank you for your great comments/revisions! As for magic heros and fighting heroes, I think running more magic than my opponent will give me the lead in controlling his board. A lot of his spells involve sapping wounds and hitting my warriors with toughness tests. Worst of all, his dragon lord is a pain and I don't think an exhalted hero in a unit of warriors aren't going to have enough time to hit the dragon dead on...even if it had the chance to do so as Chaos warriors are better at beating the crap out of every other core!! Love the chaos warriors!

Please continue the replies!!
 

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Schemer
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481 Posts
Here's my two cents...

Thank you for the reply! Now to comment back...



As I stated before, I am new, and I should have apologized previously for any errors in my list. I didn't understand that you can only have one magic item for a select hero. However, it makes sense since it's equivalent to a hero taking two swords from the magic list (o.o). If that is the case, Infernal Puppet is a must and I would replace spell familiar with Enchanted Shield for 15.

A good choice, you can also use the point elsewhere.


I did not destroy his army and I didn't even scratch his dragon lord due to inadequacy of strategic knowledge lol! I put a sorc on disc in range of his dragon so I can cast some spells but I failed to realize that the dragon can charge on the fly. Also my knights were caught by a flank charge by the dragon lord and left the rest of my army defenseless. I do not know how to destroy a "all 6s" dragon or his lord but flickering fire is a start because it negates regen and the Chaos lord is a mad house and shouldn't have a problem taking on the dragon...

You need to put your sorcerer out of his line of sight to safely cast spell.
As for the dragon, that's what I thought! It is commonly agreed that for WoC the most reliable way to kill a dragon is a dragon...


I like your idea on the marauders. I didn't quite understand their place among the warriors except to take hits from shooting units. I like the idea of saving 50 points!!

Small marauder unit can be used has flank breaker and throw away unit (speed bump). Your opponent has to deal with those small unit otherwise he will have them in his flanks. A big unit of marauder is best left protecting the flanks of warriors and provides static combat resolution in combat. In the end however, the results is as you say, you force your opponent to "waste" some of his attacks in your marauders.


As for hounds, although this may be another topic entirely, what role do they play for WoC and how are they to be played? I usually push them in front of my knights of warriors to take shots off my strong units but what happened last time is the hounds got charged by the hydra which ran thru the hounds into my knights. I ripped the hydra to shreds but after a loss to a couple knights. They just seem to cause panic and I don't like that. Please explain if you are willing to!!

Hounds are usually used as bait, speed bump or table quarter holder. They are fast enough to be sent in front of everything without creating "cluster fock". You made the mistakes of aligning your fleeing move through your own unit with the hydra. What you usually want to achieve is to align your hounds in such a way that the hydra will charge and be left in the open without anyone in his line of sight. The problem with the hydra is that it also breath fire... but anyway this is a very effective way of creating an opportunity for a flank charge. The other used of hounds is to put them in a flank and block the way. Don't even try to charge. Let the opponent shoot at them and if he is within charges position your unit so he will waste one turn to reposition himself. Panic test will perhaps make the hounds flee but I have had a lot of luck with ld5 re-roll. If your opponent doesn't attack or you fled and rallied deep behind your line. The hounds are probably better left holding the table quarter (if they are 3 of them).




The spawns are naked. And they have an additional 5 points for no reason, sorry if that threw you off. Two naked spawns are actually only 130 points.

Are you sure? My book says 55 pts (110).

I didn't read that part about the "look out sir" rule and champions within a unit with a hero/lord. So in order to get the "look out sir" with a hero in the unit, a champion must be excluded? Okay, that's easy. And I save 8 points by buying a musician. Could you elaborate on "your opponent needs to kill 1 knight before happening"? I don't understand what you are referring to.

Once you are left with 4 knights, you can't have a look out sir roll and missiles are randomized.

So this unit has a champion and I plan on including the lord into this unit. Should I remove the champion and buy a musician? With the lord, he will have a 3+ save on shooting which is prolly enough to negate all attacks in time for my knights to kick some butt, but still i'm new and I question everything!

Always buy the musician first. Then wonder about a banner and/or champion. In this case adding a champion will have the above mentioned effect. This is a decision you have to make yourself. As for myself, I currently field a single unit of 6 knights with a champion inside.


I asked him if he would play 2300 and he agreed, so it's a 2300. If it goes down to 2250 I will try to find 50 points somewhere as this would be an annoyance to him since I already set the bar.

No problem, I was just wondering if it was 2 pts off or 52. Play whatever pts you want there are no standard written;)

Thank you for your great comments/revisions! As for magic heros and fighting heroes, I think running more magic than my opponent will give me the lead in controlling his board. A lot of his spells involve sapping wounds and hitting my warriors with toughness tests. Worst of all, his dragon lord is a pain and I don't think an exhalted hero in a unit of warriors aren't going to have enough time to hit the dragon dead on...even if it had the chance to do so as Chaos warriors are better at beating the crap out of every other core!! Love the chaos warriors!

Try looking at Pinkus Master Blaster list (http://www.librarium-online.com/for...-small-local-tournament-list.html#post1619072). It seems he manage to get a nice heavy magic list with a chaos dragon in hit. It might give you an idea on how to fit a dragon into your list.


Please continue the replies!!
 

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You might want to try some slaanesh magic. If you use either titillating delusions on the dragon or hysterical frenzy and then bait it you can perhaps line up a charge from your lord onto the dragon (or make the dragon charge your lord). I've learned the hardest part in dealing with a dragon is just tying them down. Maybe change your tzeentch sorc with 2 scrolls to slaanesh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Okay here is my updated list:

Chaos Lord 210

Shield 10
MofT 10
Father of Blades 40
Armour of Damnation 45
Talisman of Protection 15
Word of Agony 40
Barded Steed 16

Total 386

Fetus the Leechlord 185

Chaos Sorcerer 85
Lvl 2 35
MofT 20
2x Dispell Scroll 50
Barded Steed 16

Total 206

/* Note: It was an excellent idea to change my spells to the slannesh magic, however, hoping for hysterical frenzy or titilating delusions is too much of a risk for only one caster. I was thinking about changing both my casters to slannesh magic but the thought of losing tzneetch spells changed my mind haha! Also, im not good with strategy and baiting right now, but im sure slannesh in the future will be more appetizing for me. */

Chaos Sorcerer 85
lvl 2 35
MofT 20
Infernal Puppet 35
Enchanted Shield 15
Bloodcurdling Roar 20
Disk of Tzneetch 20

Total 230

These are updated core and special thanks to dapredator66

18 x Chaos Warriors 270
MofN 30
Shields 18
Great Weapons 26
Full Command 30
Rapturous Standard 25

Total 409

/* Note: I changed the amount of warriors to make a 6 file and rank unit with 3 ranks at 6 per rank! Also, Fetus will be in this unit to provide the regenerate ability and poisoned attacks. */

10 x Marauders 40
Great Weapons 10

total 50

10 x Marauders 40
Great Weapons 10

total 50

5 x Warhounds 30

5 x Warhounds 30

2 x Chaos Spawn 110

6 x Chaos Knights 240
MofN 30
Musician 10
Standard 20
Blasted Standard 40

Total 340

/*Note: Chaos Lord will be in this unit. */

5 x Chaos Knights 200
MofN 30
Musician 10
Standard 20
War Banner 25

Total 285

/* Note: Chaos Sorcerer with 2 dispell scrolls will be in this unit. */

SubTotal 2311

I might have to cut out something to make it closer to 2300 but this is the list guys! As for fighting the dragon, I really don't think I have anything to stop it except pop it every turn with some powerful spells and try to get my lord on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Before I battle with this list, I wanted to ask about placement for my units. The hounds are good for taking hits from shooting characters, and the marauders are good for covering my chaos warrior flanks. Spawn are good for stopping enemy units to give me a chance to hit a flank. Is this how I should place them on the board?


Hounds Hounds

5 Knights Spawn marauders Chaos Warriors marauders Spawn 6 Knights
Sorc Disc

???
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sorry the hounds did not post the way I placed them in the chat box. I put the hounds In front of the marauders and chaos warriors. What's the best way, in this placement, to move my units?
 

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in all honesty, the only reason i would put hounds infront of marauders is to either
1. take a charge, die, unit over runs into marauders and gets flanked in return
2. stop the marauders charging unit you dont want to charge, but you dont have mark of khorne so thats so much of a problem,
i dont really use i hounds outside of my vamps (where my doggies are move 9 and hunt war machines) but you could go for a similar set up, because 9 times out of 10 they will only soak up 1 unit of shooting or 1 magic missile (and some of the better ones dont need LOS) or shooters will almost always be on a hill making the hounds pointless.. but thats from what i have seen, and not may people use them

I personally think festus is good but would go with either lots of nurgle or none (I have seen a very nasty nurgle magic list with a wizard lord on a dragon and 2 nurgle wizards) but tzeentch is my fave lore, possibly go for power familiar and scroll on first wizard, especially if he rolls treasons or gateway, or anythin except 1,2 for spells (no2 being useless vs elves)

good luck with your game, if you can post his list here(dont iclude individual points!! just total for model/unit) then maybe we can see what you can do to work better against that opponent type?

good luck
 
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