Librarium Online Forums banner
1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have looked at many lists and i do not see anyone really incorporate WRAITHLORDS any particular reason why?

If there really is no reason would it be better to have squad of war walkers or wraithlord?

I would appreciate any feedback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
Main reasons are they are generally too slow for a mech list and with only a 3+, missile launchers, lascannons, etc will score wounds with no worse than a 4+.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Well, from what I've seen, most people here at LO play mech eldar, and wraithlords can easily be left behind by the rest of the army. I personally however like to keep a wraithlord in my army as it is a good bullet magnet and can prove very deadly if it makes it into combat. However, I am inexperienced so I do not know the full potential of the wraithlord.

I would take the wraithlord over the war walkers, but it all adds up on how you play your games. Hope this helps...
 

·
Thinks he's a big deal
Joined
·
1,233 Posts
They are pretty tough, and do make good weapons platforms (and are mercifully cheap). Nobody is arguing against that, I think. However, despite all of their heavy weapons, they can dish out very little damage per-turn, and heaven help them in the melee. They have all of two attacks normally, possibly one re-rolled (w/ Wraithsword). They are, also, (as winginson pointed out) very slow, unable to keep up with the most common Eldar list type, mech.

They do have a niche, and fill it reasonably well, but there are tradeoffs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
They do have a niche, and fill it reasonably well, but there are tradeoffs.
Wraithlords do fill the niche of "tough heavy weapons platform", but I find falls agonisingly short of being truly great. The two major problems for me are:

1) The toughness - wraithlords have a brilliant toughness value, but because they are big targets the enemy will use his anti-tank guns on the wraithlord instead and they will not get an armour save and its hard to get a cover save for them. An invunerable save or more wounds would be brilliant.

2) The shootyness - You either buy 2 heavy weapons that don't complement eachother in range/intended target or pay for the weapon twice just to twin-link it. If instead it did what happens to exarchs and just doubled the number of shots of the weapon I would be happy. The option for pulse lasers would be nice too.

This being said I have played alot of 500 - 750 points games recently and at that point level they are brutal. Very few armies have enough heavy firepower to take down multiple wraithlords and still have enough effective anti-infantry to kill your infantry. But a few tweaks to wraithlords and plastic wraithguard and I would start a wraith army no question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
But couldnt you have the spiritseer give him a 5+ cover save no matter where he is on the field? That would take care of the invunerable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
But couldnt you have the spiritseer give him a 5+ cover save no matter where he is on the field? That would take care of the invunerable.

A wraithlord is a Monstrous Creature i.e. a unit of one, it can't have a Warlock attached to it, and Warlock powers (besides destructor) only affect the unit they are part of.
 

·
Thinks he's a big deal
Joined
·
1,233 Posts
2) The shootyness - You either buy 2 heavy weapons that don't complement eachother in range/intended target or pay for the weapon twice just to twin-link it. If instead it did what happens to exarchs and just doubled the number of shots of the weapon I would be happy. The option for pulse lasers would be nice too.
Well said, my friend. This is my primary gripe with the Wraithlord.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
pulse laser, reaper launcher.. so want those as heavy wepaon choices, tho a wraithlord with two pulse lasers (assuming they're the size of hte falcon ones) might look a little crazy ! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
445 Posts
They are normally used in footslogging lists or at low points, which isn't exactly a popular army setup these days.
Anything from a Wraithguard Iyanden army, to a Avatar lead footslogger army, or even a Harlequin heavy army they are a viable choice, the problem is that your playing to eldars weaknesses not strengths, and while fluffy you need to be really skilled to win with these lists.
Its a shame that wraithlords can't substitute a weapon for an upgrade that allows them to move an additional 6" a turn (but not also run) more like jump infantry.
That being said pigs might fly :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Yeah they would be good if they could keep up with mech armies even tho they have T:8 and str: 10 they dont get there when you need them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,387 Posts
Because fire prisms and war walkers are better given 5th edition, current eldar codex, and current usage of other codex.
 

·
404: Title not found
Joined
·
2,845 Posts
Simple. They don't work with mech lists. They only work in the alternative to mech lists which also works very well...

And that involves 3 wraithlords and an Avatar. If you can make them work, they're awesome, though IMO not quite as good as mech lists. It's what my alternative list is based around (that FW spear-wielding Avatar model is absolutely to DIE for.)

~ DiW
 

·
Firefly
Joined
·
4,209 Posts
I take two in my list (Hybrid), one with EML and BL the other with EML and scatter laser.

They work well.
 

·
Thinks he's a big deal
Joined
·
1,233 Posts
Gauntlet weapons - flamer/shuricat combo, pick your poison.
Shoulder-mount weapons - Brightlance, EML, Shuricannon, Starcannon, Scatter Laser, and a Wraithsword (though that should not be shoulder mounted... if it is, you're doing it wrong).

In case you are unfamiliar with the Eldar weapons (your knowledge thereof I have no way of telling), here is a brief rundown:
Heavy Shoulder-mounted weapons:
Brightlance - precision anti-armor. Very good against high AV tanks due to the Lance special rule as detailed in the BRB.
EML - multi-role rocket launcher, comes standard with Krak and Plasma grenades, with attendant special rules. More chance of hitting than the Brightlance (due to it being a blast weapon), but lower damage per hit against high AV tanks. Excellent against MEQs, decent against TEQs, evil against GEQs. An interesting aside is that the plasma grenades count as defense weapons on a tank.
Starcannon - Designed to take down the toughest of infantry, this gun cuts swathes through MEQs and TEQs, and even has a decent chance against light vehicles.
Shuricannon - the mainstay of Eldar forces, it too is an all-around weapon, a light anti-tank weapon where quantity takes mild precedence over quality, or a vicious TEQ/MEQ crowd control weapon.
Scatter Laser - a decidedly anti-light infantry weapon, although can function as a very passable anti-heavy-infantry weapon in a pinch, going especially for the quantity of shots rather than the quality of any one shot in particular.
Gauntlet close-defense weapons:
Shuricat - it's like a Bolter, but with range akin to hipfiring a leaking garden hose. It used to be more deadly.
Flamer - under the current rules, denying cover is a must, and flamers do that very nicely, putting a lot of wounds on a squad, with a range not a whole lot less than that of a Shuricat, but with a virtually identical functional range (due to both being less than or equal the charging range of most units).


Lastly, there is the Wraithsword, which admittedly looks awesome but has issues:
Cons:
-It isn't two weapons, thus the Wraithlord loses the matching-weapons bonus in CC
-It doesn't add anything except a re-roll. One re-roll of one attack.
-It takes up a heavy-weapon mount on the Wraithlord.
-The Wraithlord is most effective at punching tanks (because of its low number of attacks) and so arming it for that purpose (on a slow, relentless model) seems wasteful - melee should be a last resort.
Pro(s)
-It's hella cheap. Why one would want a very cheap Wraithlord without good weapons I do not know, but perhaps Lyanden-based armies put Wraithswords to good use.
-Lose an attack but gain a re-roll. Yay?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
this is from my elder friend.

i thought myself of this. but id equip one as an all rounder wraithlord, one heavy weapon wriathlord, and one close combat wraithlord
all rounder would be equipped with one flamer, on shuricat, one eml, and wraithblade
heavy weapon would be equipped with two shuricats, one starcannon, and one scatter laser
close combat would be equipped with two flamers and wraithblade.

not only do they travel at the same speed of the avatar, so as not to be left behind, they also shield him from incoming attacks.
[also try using court of the young king with the three wraithlords for apoc battles, oh, and eldrad ulthran : ) ]
 

·
Thinks he's a big deal
Joined
·
1,233 Posts
all rounder would be equipped with one flamer, on shuricat, one eml, and wraithblade
This gives a whopping 3 shots outside of 12", or 5 shots and a template inside 12". It doesn't have the power to push through TEQs or to an extent MEQs (never mind heavy tanks) and doesn't have the shots for GEQs.

heavy weapon would be equipped with two shuricats, one starcannon, and one scatter laser
Heavy weapons? I would dub this a mixed-infantry killer, successful at neither role. The Starcannon and Scatter Laser do not complement eachother - they each have a niche, but both have to fire at a single target. Additionally, you only have 4 bolter shots, only within 12", the primary gripe with the gauntlet shuricats.

close combat would be equipped with two flamers and wraithblade.
A model of nearly 100 points running into combat with (admittedly two flame templates,) one powerfist attack (MC), and one re-roll-able powerfist attack (Wraithsword). That seems enormously inefficient.



The accepted models are more along the lines of:
Anti-Tank - Brightlance, EML, two flamers
Anti TEQs - Starcannon,EML/Shuricannon, two flamers
Anti-MEQs - some mix of EML, Starcannon, Shuricannon, and even a Scatter Laser could do the job, two flamers
Anti-GEQ - EML, Scatter Laser/Shuricannon, two flamers

People do use the melee, I acknowledge, but I find it startlingly wasteful - a Relentless, Move Through Cover weapon platform should probably not, under the current codex, be kitted out for melee, even with the flamers.

On the subject of flamers, they are far, fare better to equip your Wraithlord with than Shuricats. Why? Because Shuricats can get at most 4 hits within 12". A single flamer usually gets more than 4 hits, and at a reasonable fraction of the distance. Both of these weapons are less than or equal to in range the assault range, so weapons that put out more wounds are a good thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,677 Posts
Almost always in an Anti-Tank role for me, so just like Rafis said, EML, Brightlance, pair of flamers. If I'm taking wraithlords, I've almost always got my anti-infantry elsewhere, so there's little point to pimp him out for the same role. If I decide to go Close Combat, it's generally Shruicannon, scatter laser, and two flamers. Advance while firing, then torch, then charge. The Wraithlord, though, lacks a serious number of close combat attacks to make it worth while in melee, it'll kill what it hits, but a hidden powerfist, or a tarpit unit will ruin it's day.


If I'm going my standard Anti-Tank, I'll babysit it with a squad of guardian defenders and a scatter laser or shuricannon platform with a warlock + conceal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
445 Posts
I also only use mine as a heavy weapons platform for a few reasons - Its too slow to catch anything worthwhile, and if your opponent tarpits it with a unit then generally thats fine as for its cost its probably similar cost to that unit and has done its job, especially if your opponent piles more units in, assuming it doesn't get punked by a powerfist.
Its far more useful as something to scare your opponent with than as an actual wreaker of havoc on the battle feild, its damage is very limited, the BL/EML make it a 'tank hunter' which if you get lucky might be true, but is more of a threat in your opponents head than on the table. Same with the flamers and charge, most opponents pump as many shots into it as possible simply to remove it from the table.
Meanwhile other units are being ignored.
For its base cost its extremely cheap, and even with upgrades its still a bargain, and it can play a large role on the battle feild in forcing your opponent to make choices or play a certain way, and even if they get ignored they can still be a real pain if they get into combat and whittle something down, or if they are popping off shots.

The biggest issue is wraithsight effecting them which is a total joke and rediculous. But thats another arguement :p
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top