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It seems to me this is a ket aspect of any WWP army - how do they get to where they need to go. Here's my solution:

2 Haemonculus FLEET
each with WWP
Stinger
Scissorhand
Plasma grenades
1 has a Shadow Field

each is attached to a 12 strong warrior squad (fleet) and they all rush forward in turn 1 pref in cover to get to the portal activation points. Since the Haemonculus are independent characters they get 3 dice when moving through difficult terrain, thus ensuring a cover save at all times. The other way could be to not attach them but keep them behind the warrior sqauds and because they are independent the enemy has to shoot the closest squad first - the warriors.

Any thoughts on iths aproach?
 

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It sounds pretty good and should generally work ...

Just on a side note though you can't give Haemonculi Plasma grenades if i'm not mistaken, just check the entry in wargear RE: Scissorhands I think that is where it is...
 

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It seems to me this is a ket aspect of any WWP army - how do they get to where they need to go. Here's my solution:

2 Haemonculus FLEET
each with WWP
Stinger
Scissorhand
Plasma grenades
1 has a Shadow Field

each is attached to a 12 strong warrior squad (fleet) and they all rush forward in turn 1 pref in cover to get to the portal activation points. Since the Haemonculus are independent characters they get 3 dice when moving through difficult terrain, thus ensuring a cover save at all times. The other way could be to not attach them but keep them behind the warrior sqauds and because they are independent the enemy has to shoot the closest squad first - the warriors.

Any thoughts on iths aproach?
Just to clarify: Is the haemonculi attached to the unit or is he separate? It sounds like you say both at different points. The reason I ask is because it isn't enough that the warriors are closer, they have to be a separate unit (ie, he can't be attached).

Two comments: Plasma grenades are useless due to the Scissor hands not functioning with plasma grenades. Second, I suggest the Destructor rather then the stinger due to its great anti-"everything that walks or slithers" ability.
 

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Yeah, you definitely want to put the Haemonculi BEHIND the warrior squads. It's probably almost not worth spending that much points on giving them weapons either, because they are going to get killed pretty quickly and will almost NEVER get the chance for combat, and stingers are the most useless weapon you could choose.

I'd also reccomend the following for the Warrior squads:

15 Warriors, 2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blasters - 150pts

They make excellent all purpose troops squads which can be very helpful against everything from horde armies (In which case you wouldn't even use the WWP, you would just deploy everything at the start) to mech armies to MEQ's.

So your delivery system would be:

2 Haemonculi, WWP, Scissorhands - 160pts
15 Warriors, 2 SC, 2 Blasters - 150pts
15 Warriors, 2 SC, 2 Blasters - 150pts
 

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Karrot Dialysis
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Yeah, you definitely want to put the Haemonculi BEHIND the warrior squads. It's probably almost not worth spending that much points on giving them weapons either, because they are going to get killed pretty quickly and will almost NEVER get the chance for combat, and stingers are the most useless weapon you could choose.

I'd also reccomend the following for the Warrior squads:

15 Warriors, 2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blasters - 150pts

They make excellent all purpose troops squads which can be very helpful against everything from horde armies (In which case you wouldn't even use the WWP, you would just deploy everything at the start) to mech armies to MEQ's.

So your delivery system would be:

2 Haemonculi, WWP, Scissorhands - 160pts
15 Warriors, 2 SC, 2 Blasters - 150pts
15 Warriors, 2 SC, 2 Blasters - 150pts
This.

I'd add sybarites, but thats just me I do love 176 point squads.

Still prefer the Drachite/sybarite model for carriers over haemies, but again I think both are about the same in overall effectiveness so its more a matter of preference.
 

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Yeah I don't think you need a souped up sybarite in a squad whose main purpose is to protect the WWP carriers by dying.... A waste of points IMO.

Also you DO NOT want to use Sybarites as carriers, because if the squad fails its morale check (And it WILL) then you have lost both the squad and the portal because you can't deploy it while running away. As for a Drachite, I would never use less than 2 portals because your entire army depends on them, and you can only take 1 drachite per HQ choice, rather than the 2 that the Haemonculi offers.

Hope that helps!
 

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Karrot Dialysis
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Using a sybarite as one carrier and a drachite as the other has never failed me yet. Yeah sometimes the squad runs, but no bigee they have to kill/break both squads then the S.F. protected model. Often I find my units (or at least one of them) ends up intact enough to fight and the sybarites are invaluable then. Been running it htis way for years it works :).
 

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Dark Eldar Zealot
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Using a sybarite as one carrier and a drachite as the other has never failed me yet. Yeah sometimes the squad runs, but no bigee they have to kill/break both squads then the S.F. protected model. Often I find my units (or at least one of them) ends up intact enough to fight and the sybarites are invaluable then. Been running it htis way for years it works :).
Hi,
I just can’t reconcile myself to place THE most important piece of wargear in my entire army onto a 1 wound mode, (like a Sybarite) ever.

If it all goes according to plan, then great but the one time it doesn’t, guess which tactic I would never use again.

For me all the single wound models that start on the table in a portal army are destined to die as a sacrifice/distraction or whatever to ensure that my premium assault troops actually get into combat without a prior loss. I try and balance my army composition so that almost all models that start on the table are destroyed and almost all models that stream out of the portal gain full benefit from their sacrifice. That’s the “Holy Grail” for me.

And as to the Drachite, I class this as a “premium assault troop” and thus he goes into the portal and not deployed on the table before the game starts. My Monster Hunter isn’t much good o me when he kisses the deck from indirect fire in the first or second turn.

And Sybarites are expendable but the portal is most definitely not – I must admit that I am not a fan of Sybarites anyway!

If you can get way with this, then great but its not my style sorry. For me it’s Haemies all the way, but perhaps I need to look at how you play your army.

Cheers
 

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Yay someone agrees with me!!!

But seriously, the only time that your starting squads should still exist is when your versing a horde army with bad shooting in which case you should probably start with most of your army on the board anyway...

A Haemonculi definitely beats a sybarite anyday. Just wondering, but why do you use a drachon??
 

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Karrot Dialysis
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A sybarite is a 1 wound model, yes, but it can't be sniped, so its more like a 15 wound model. In addition with 25% cover I find that it is very often the caset that one (or rarely both) squad survives partially when used to deliver the portals. Normally I open turn 2 which often means only 1-2 rounds of shooting, which is frequently not enough to finish them, as opponents tend to have a difficult time bringing the full force of their armies to bear against two squads that are hiding from them. The drachite is used because it is an independant character that then draws a huge amount of attention even after the portal has been placed due to its hig combat ability, with its 19-25" charge range it typically can get into combat at the same time as everything coming out of the portal anyway.

Its a Drachite by the way not a Dracon, I use a Dracon as well as my commander with some incs in a raider, but thats in the web. I persoanlly find the sybarites and indeed the squads with them tend to come into play around 70% of the time in some wa, usually as a supporting action or distraction and I wouldn't be wtihout the ybs then. The rest of the time its usually against very shooty armies, so they are dead, but they deployed the portal and they aren't needed to kill a shooty army in cc.

Oh and I meant to say in my last post your absolutely right in never taking only a single portal, thats crazy.
 

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Dark Eldar Zealot
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Hi,
I agree that the Sybarite could indeed be classed as a 15 wound model when it is included into 15 man squad but it is possible to “snipe” that model with something like a Vindicare Assassin if its obvious that it simply has to be the Sybarite that holds the portal but more the worry is that you are tactically straight jacketed to using a 15 man squad in the first place.

If you are considering a Sybarite for portal carrying duties then you simply must factor in those ablative wounds to ensure that it alone gets the assigned ‘job’ done, and its here that an Independent Character is much more flexible.

They can be attached or not, they can survive with a much smaller squad size and still get the ‘job’ done. The use of Haemonculi do also have other benefits such as leading Grotesques and this again leads to a greater range of tactics.

I have had a 20 man squad decimated in 2 turns from indirect fire and thanked my lucky stars that I always use multiples when choosing a portal army and when you survive close shaves such as this it becomes much more apparent that the ‘insurance’ bought on a multi wound model may well be worth it.

But I suppose that it comes down to playing style and preference, and I have run squads as you have described but feel far more comfortable when using Haemies for the job of portal activation.

Cheers.

P.S. I have even seen a game where the ONLY model on the table is a one Haemonculi in cover with a portal, daring the enemy to destroy it before it could use the portal, and guess what?

It survived the entire game and Dark Eldar won the game – go figure!
 

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Karrot Dialysis
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I'm not talking about only taking one portal, I agree that thats crazy I'm talking about taking

15 warriors
2 Splinter Cannons
2 Blasters
Sybarite, Agoniser, Portal

15 warriors
2 Splinter Cannons
2 Blasters
Sybarite, Agoniser

Drachite, Shadowfield, Agoniser, Drugs, Portal

So the only difference between our two delivery systems is that I sacrifice a single independant character (one haemonculi) to get a better IC as my carrier who can then, frequently, go on to have a major impact on the game rather than be rather useless after portal deployment like a haemie. Yes this is (marginally) more fragile than your set up, but its one model difference and, even in the case of a vindicare sniping a sybarite (and when was the last time you saw a vindicare in play) theres still the portal on the Drachite. The two set ups are very nearly identical, the reasom I don't take haemies is because I take the drachite so that I can have tha extra utility in the battle, so I need somewhere else to put the portal and the sybarite is all thats left. In addition there are two sybarites, so even with a vindicare they only have a 50/50 chance of hitting the right one.
 

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Archite of Caerbannog
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A quick "chime-in" on this.

Either method is quite reliable, we are nit-picking small differences so to be fair you need to consider the rest of the list and play style you like before knowing which is best. For me it's simply:

Kabal or Coven (over 1850 points) is most likely when I am going to use a portal carry haemoculi. This has been the most reliable system that gives me the utmost confidence that I will get the portal open. 2 Haemys for 2 portals - both are listed solo so they can play in all levels of the game (alpha, gamma and omega escalation). I will either have one running behind a large squad of foot slogging warriors and the other gets aggressive by either starting the game with a raider squad or raider full of grotesques.

For Cult its different, 2 large foot slogging warrior squads with sybarites with the wwp.

As a "freak" incident once when using a 15 man foot slogging wwp squad a whirlwind hit the squad dead on and killed 14 of the 15 - the sybarite lived, then passed a morale test then an "all-alone" check and was able to drop the portal the next turn. Got real lucky as did the opponent in destroying my entire squad - incredible dice rolling to say the least.
 

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Archite of Caerbannog
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Aye Kwik, that was what I was trying to say, thanks for putting it better than me :D.
No worries, I got yer back;Y

I just prefer the Drachite + syb carrier model ...
I like this idea - there is an advanced tactic I see here that I think I can use. Of course its something I would have to test out but I can already tell it will most likely work. Thanks for sharing your ideas.

However, I did try the HQ carrying a wwp once before and found that I didn't like having my Lord stopping to drop the portal - it was like time stood still for a turn and a half and I was like, "hurry up and drop the darn thing already, aargh!" (me being impatient and feeling very vulnerable).

Of course that was in my early years of being an Archon, now, I bend time to serve me (or should I say I have become very patient to spring my traps, one turn it looks like I am going to lose, next, game over for the other guy) - the turn before I drop the portal compared to the turn after I drop the portal.
 

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Dark Eldar Zealot
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Hi guys,
I can see where this is going here, and I agree it gets down to to "How can I get the best use of the Carrier after its morning tea break?"

And I really do see the use of the Drachite and Sybarite setup as I have run this way before, and this relies on the Agoniser being used further into the game - whereas the Haemonculi is really better off with the Destructor which 'may' not be used further into the game due to close combats denying its usage.

But I consider the portal game as a gambit in the first place and even more so when your opponent is thoroughly prepared to face Dark Eldar.

Many games against my sons Ultramarines (and allied variations of them) have shown me the value of the Whirlwind and the Vindicare and to get that portal down safely.

I tend to run very minimal on the table so he knows where the portal is going to be carried and styles his attack around this - perhaps I need to change tact here and include more on the table in the first place!

This is an interesting topic and strongly reflects ones style of play - neither one being wrong and neither one being totally right.

Cheers.
 

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Personally I run 2 wwp in most of my larger battle each carried by a a heamculus. Thanks to the independent character rule he can't get shot at most of the time so he runs next to a warrior squad and drops the portal. The second does that same in a different place on the table.
 

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Archite of Caerbannog
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Many games against my sons Ultramarines (and allied variations of them) have shown me the value of the Whirlwind and the Vindicare and to get that portal down safely.
Against these guys, I agree that the Haemy setup would be more reliable - I would be using grotesques as a meatshield for at least one of the haemys which would render the whirlwind useless. Since I use more than 2 Haemys in most of these setups I would be somewhat ok against the Vindicare but if he can "pick" out his target then a little more careful in portal location, cover and brush up on my "assassin rules". Personally, I dont know anything about them.

I tend to run very minimal on the table so he knows where the portal is going to be carried and styles his attack around this - perhaps I need to change tact here and include more on the table in the first place!
I take it you guys adjust your lists against each other, right?

Other little tidbit tricks I would include is instead of putting them in the portal you could put some into reserve and either skip the portal altogether or just take out the portal and get something else for the points. Coming out of reserve normally is still a decent way to enter the game with our skimmers. We can still show up at our 12" deployment zone when they are ready or depending on the your deployment zone you can actually get to the 24" mark without turbo-boosting.

Or throw in some screaming jets. Against a whirlwind, I have deepstriked a raider squad in for the chance at glory to "pop" the whirlwind. Of course its unpredictable and dangerous but I love playing that way - all this makes the Haemy idea a whole lot better.
 

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As in 5th Edition, our IC will lose their special "You-can't-shoot-me" abiliti, i was thinking of othere ways to deploy a WWP.

So what changes for us in 5th Edition?

Raiders flying over 12" negat any hits on a 4+ (Rocks)
Crew in a raider that explodes only get a S3 hit, and if you travel more than 12" in 4th Edit. you had to repeat the 4+ hit, thats also no more! so only 1 S3 hit per model.

so troups on raiders will be better and living longer.

So my idea was to use a usual gunboat Raidersquad with a sybarith with agoniser and WWP.
Fly the Raider 24" up to the enemy, where only a few enemys can shoot it (have to wait on the full rules to see where that will be).

next turn. let the raider stay where he is and deploy the WWP from the raider.
(is that possible?)

so what do you say?
 

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Dark Eldar Zealot
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next turn. let the raider stay where he is and deploy the WWP from the raider.
(is that possible?)

so what do you say?
Currently it’s not legal to deploy a portal from a model whilst embarked on a Raider because the models are deemed ‘not to be on the table’ and you need base to base contact between the model and the portal template to activate it.

Cheers.
 
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