[crazy_irish]

wyches vs. Inccubi

So who do you prefer and why?
Explanations with specific squad builds(eg wyches with Goblet) are appreciated.

So which squad do you prefer and why?

sláinte

 

[Krovin-Rezh]

Apples & oranges?

Overall, I guess I'd have to go with the Wyches, just because they are cheaper than what they can take on. Incubi are typically more expensive per model than the targets they are designed to deal with.

Maybe I'd be less on the fence though if Wyches looked as cool as Incubi.

 

[Zidi]

Both have a place in an large army...

It begins to get harder when you have to choose =p

I'd probably make sure I have 1 squad of wyches before taking any incubi...

That being said Incubi seem to win me all my battles =p

 

[Archon Charybdis]

Incubi are typically more expensive per model than the targets they are designed to deal with.

That's what's so great though, you don't usually need a 1:1 ratio to kill your target. It came up in the Incubi Woes thread, but I never take more than 6 incubi, it keeps them cheaper but still deadly enough to handle most things. As long as you don't position yourself to get destroyed by shooting after wiping out your initial target, they can do well. Not always, but most of the time I find they do earn their points back, and often help me take out tactically important targets quickly.

I still love Wyches though, they're very cheap and effective. The only reason I don't really use more is I hate the models so much and I've run out of suitable proxies to use in my games Actually as I type I'm letting the glue dry on a couple Witch Elf models converted to hold splinter pistols.

 

[Mongooseo]

I'm much more a fan of wyches than incubi. This is probably because I like to move faster and wyches can take assault weaponry for cheaper (primarily because they have a lower point cost). It probably doesn't help that I don't really use lords anymore and instead use haemonculi.

 

[Wicky]

Incubi negatives -
• Severely limited by weapons and wargear options (no one in their right mind would arm them with a blaster or Shredder so only one build is ever considered),
• The character upgrade is almost never taken due to cost,
• No fleet of foot and as such will need a Raider to get around the table effectively,
• And also severely limited by being only used as Elites in a Retinue and this can limit the character when included,
• Cost.

Incubi positives –
• All have access to power weapons,
• All actually have armour(!),
• Great looking model.

Wych negatives –
• Almost no save against shooting,
• Not that good on the attack without the upgrade character,
• One of the most lamented models in the entire range.

Wych positives –
• Cheap for what they do,
• Combat drugs add massive functionality for free,
• Wych weapons deny the opponent abilities and create a ‘tarpit’ against tough opponents (great for slowing down events in a game),
• Can be either a Troop or Elite choice as well as a retinue so they are supremely flexible,
• They have Fleet, so its possible to go without a Raider transport at times.

So it’s not hard to see that the Incubi really must have a niche to fill if you are going to consider them at all in a game. This niche almost always revolves around directing them against high toughness opponents in close combat.
Whereas the Wyches are the ultimate reflexive choice wherever assaults are taking place regardless of how tough the opponent is.

A decider might be if the opponent is strength 6 or higher, such as any Monstrous Creatures against the Wych Weapon cut of point.
Incubi would perhaps deal with these better but its nothing that a Succubus with an Agoniser and her wound soaking Wyches couldn’t handle anyway.

One of the nicest ways to use Incubi is against other retinues or HQ choices, its here that they really shine!
But can you guarantee this match up during the game?

Cheers.

 

[JeremyKyle]

Idk,this is a tough one.

Incubi survive more against shooting,wychs survive more against close combat attacks...

Incubi SM butchers,Wychs a stall unit...hmm...

 

[ArtificiallyEnhanced]

If I'm making a list priority goes Wyches, Incubi, wyches, Wyches. One squad of incubi is generally enough, whereas you can never have enough wyches!

 

[KwiKwag]

Kinda easy being a Wych Cult enthusiest what I'd prefer but I think it boils down to (for me) in an "all-comers" list is the wyches - their extra benefits of drugs, wych weapons, 2 blasters, plasma and even their initiative makes make them hard to beat.

Wych Cult "Troop" load out:

6x Wyches, WW, Plasma, 2 Blasters, Succubus, Agoniser, pistol plasma and goblet on a raider

Kabal list with 2 wych squads or less:

8x Wyches, WW, Plasma, 2 Blasters, Succubus, Agoniser, pistol plasma and goblet on a raider

As for Incubi, they are fantastic in a Marine dominant environment but when facing Tau or Orks or non-marines they become overkill in some situations and/or harder to manage the right target for them.

Wyches, on the other hand, work in the opposite way in my line of thinking - if the target is tough for a squad of wyches then throw in another (that is why my wych cult load-outs have fewer wyches per squad). I have found that its not the number of wyches in a squad that wins a fight but the number of agonisers in the fight that makes you win.

Incubi are nice too - I am not playing Kabal as much.

 

[Krovin-Rezh]

That's what's so great though, you don't usually need a 1:1 ratio to kill your target. It came up in the Incubi Woes thread, but I never take more than 6 incubi, it keeps them cheaper but still deadly enough to handle most things.

That's absolutely true. My point was more that Wyches' lower cost relative to their intended targets gives them more overall utility than Incubi. I still love my Incubi and manage to take them in most games, but only two or three models. The fact that I only ever need that many is a testament to just how awesome they really are.

So I still can't pick a fave. Wyches = Swiss Army Knife; Incubi = Samurai Katana.

 

[El_Jairo]

I'm not that experienced since I only played a limitted number of Wych Cult games but I agreed with most said here.

I would like to add that the fact that Wyches have a 4++ save in CC and reduce the number of attacks returned due to an extra hand weapon made me chose for a wych cult. Incubi look very nice with everyone wielding a S4 PW but I feel that most other armies also rely on PW of PF to deal the real damage in CC.
In addition to this they make elite CC units loose their advantage of high WS in CC.
The biggest problem for wyches is that they should always be in CC or in a raider or they die by only looking at them (almost everything can ignore a 6+ Sv).

As I see it, Incubi suffer all the same from PW and PF so they need to be able to take down their target in 1 stroke to be most effective and thus be joined by a lord. As I have seen so fay: our lord can easily mop up regular troop squads on his own: because of his 2++ save and tremendous attacks on the charge. The only difficulty is not to break the squad in one turn

So what am I rambling about? I think Wyches and Incubi fill different needs and need to be played completely differently. Try both of them and it all comes down to what your total army list needs the most. So maybe post your list here.

 

[Gardeth]

In the current tournament meta-game I just don't see a real comparison anymore. Take a look at some of these typical "uber" units: nobs/nob bikers, thunderwolf calv, th/ss termies, Space Marine command squads with storm shields and lightening claws, bloodthirsters, bloodletters, bloodcrushers, etc. Against any of these units I would MUCH rather have the wyches, and while they might not win against all of these they can tarpit them long enough for the rest of the army to get into position (in many cases the right combat drugs can make even these fights winnable). In these situations the incubi probably cause some damage but then get wiped out.

 

[Krovin-Rezh]

Exactly. Well said Gardeth. Wyches are great against uber assault units (single models or small squads), while Incubi are great for ripping through tough troops (especially Space Marines).