[Zarathustra]

Ive been thinking about these stealers and their custom deployment rule.


We have a problem.


For most 4'x4' boards there are a couple pieces of terrain all of which are seperate pieces/areas. This means that the amount of space each piece of terrain has is small. Not tiny, but small. The shooty army need only deploy their soldiers to each piece of terrain on his side of the board and spread them out a bit to make sure there is no spot where we can pop up the stealers.

Since these stealers come in squads on 1" bases, the opponant can do some simple math. If the unit has 7+, they need a circular 4-5" area without enemy troops (3" for the squad width + 1" of clearance on each side). It should not be difficult for the opponant to make such an oppening impossible. If they are a shooty army with 5-6 squads (like guard, shooty orcs, tau) then the opponant may very well do this to every piece of terrain we would like to pop out of. If they have scouts or infiltrators, those pieces of terrain in the middle are likely to be occupied aswell.

Even low model count marines would be a problem. They have 5 squads and there are 7 pieces of suitable terrain on their side of the board. They have 5 out of 7 chances to catch our Ymgarl stealers. It becomes a head game, but to our disadvantage.


Of course in many games we control where half the terrain is placed, so we can place more terrain on our opponants side of the board - but that isnt good for us in other ways as we like our cover saves and convenient LOS blocking obstruction. Alternatively, we place terrain normally and have the Ymgarl pop up in our side of the board or in the middle of the board and have then march forward.. but they seem rather expensive and use up an elite slot to become foot sloggers little different from regular stealers.

 

[TamCoan]

We've always had that issue with any kind of scout deployment. I'm so used to being denied any secret deployment options that I'm shocked if I ever find a spot to plop em down. Heck one game there was only a 3-inch section of the board that was out LOS to my opponent. I just threw my stealers on the board as normal.

Not sure how you do your setup/deployment but isn't the normal flow like this:
- place terrain
- roll to choose sides
- deploy

That way you're never assured to get the side you've built as a defensive wall.

 

[Torden]

Standard board size is 4'x6' not 4' x 4', and unless you are playing in a tournament where the boards are pre-set up, you should be allowed to chose 1/2 the terrain that gets put on the board.

Also worth noting that for a unit to be considered "in terrain" it requires only 1/2 the models. Granted this is from the leaked rules, so the codex may say "place the entire unit in the piece of terrain."

If you are actually using 4'x4' is should be fights < 1000 pts, and ymgarl are probably not your best choice for elites. Take the standard genestealer which can outflank now w/o a broodlord and are 9 points cheaper per model with an option for taking twice the models. Standard genestealers on a 4'x4' board threaten from 13" to 18" (fleet and move through cover) from the each side meaning that your opponent has less than 1 ft of guaranteed safe space in the middle of the board.

 

[Torden]

We've always had that issue with any kind of scout deployment. I'm so used to being denied any secret deployment options that I'm shocked if I ever find a spot to plop em down. Heck one game there was only a 3-inch section of the board that was out LOS to my opponent. I just threw my stealers on the board as normal.

Not sure how you do your setup/deployment but isn't the normal flow like this:
- place terrain
- roll to choose sides
- deploy

That way you're never assured to get the side you've built as a defensive wall.

I would add first fill up 25% of the board as step one, then alternate on your first (now the second) step

 

[Zarathustra]

I usually play on 4x4 @ 1k so I use that as my reference even when I scale up. My view on Ymgarl stands though. I see the Ymgarl stealers special deployment rules as being cool, but constraining to the point where the opponant they would be best against, is the opponant type most able to pop their deployment ideas.


If they also have scout/outflank (not from what Ive read) then they'd be better.

 

[Blood_Lord]

I like the idea of the Ymgarl stealers but I think they're to expensive and don't fit my playstyle.

But if I'd play them I'd place them in a terrain feature where I think my opponent can be forced to go to send them into a trap...

 

[Errors]

I think what bugs me more is that Ymgarl'stealers have to deploy in piece of terrain if I read the leaked info correctly? Hopefully that piece isn't something that would normally cause you to roll difficult terrain tests to drudge through. Why? Because the moment they try and charge another unit near by and have to roll difficult terrain test to see if they reach their target, the y'stealers are attacking at initiative one. =/

Unless I'm totally off my rocker that seems like a big problem for them.

 

[TamCoan]

If I understand them correctly you get to select a terrain piece before deployment and hold the Ymgari stealers in reserve. When they come into play you get to pick where they go in that piece. If they are unable to be deployed because they are too close to the enemy, they are destroyed.

 

[Blood_Lord]

Yep