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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Whenever you mention the idea of female space marines (shock! Horror!) you always get people just getting mad and going (Why don't you just play Star Wars?) Or other insults get hurled at you.

At the end of the Day 40K is a game, a hobby right? That means we either choose to play in GW's universe with all the fluff and rules, or of course we just play the rules right? Rules don't tell you how your army is made up, the fluff does, the rules are just stat lines that tell you how an army will perform.

So why then if someone says "I have female and/or alien space marines" do people get so uptight. I do, I don't play the 40k universe in my campaign, only at clubs, so to avoid unnecessary confrontation I put helmets on my marines, that way if they aren't human or male it doesn't matter, as in a GW store or my club, nobody cares, they are just marines. At home I have my own campaign fluff, with stories around some of the major characters, such as Karla, the female Panther-person leader of my half of the Ultramarines.

I allow people to 'level up' and join the marines when they are good enough. My nephew doesn't care who or what we play, it's just a game to him too. He has the Space Wolves.

So when somebody like me comes along and accidentally at a tournament refers to a marine as 'she', remember it's easily done when some of your own house rules allow females, as long as the rules aren't broken, it doesn't matter. And the rules, are not broken, my marines still have the same stat lines as any others. My only exception to this is my head librarian, who is paid for as Tigurius, but doesn't have his rod, and instead of using 3 powers per turn has a few of her stats tweaked to represent the character and how potently tough she is. Above average str for a marine, normal toughness though, but high WS and BS scores. Remember she can't use 3 powers a turn, only 2. But in a normal GW or club game is just another librarian, nothing special, just an ordinary epistolary with those stats.
 

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My backpack has JETS!
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I'm a firm believer that since they are your models, you are more than welcome to do whatever you like to them. If you want to play female Space Marines, I think that is great and I wish more people in this hobby were able to stretch their imagination a little bit. House rules, campaigns, conversions and crazy paint schemes are what makes this hobby what it is. As long as two people can agree to follow the 40k Rulebook and Codex when necessary (tournaments, GW stores) then who is to say who is 'wrong' or 'right'?
 

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Son of LO
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Female space marines.. ugh.. here we go..

Right, firstly, people never want to play female space marines.. they want to play female superhumans who nonetheless have stick thin waists, ample breasts and long lustrous hair. The reason GW didn't make female space marines is not because they're mysogynists, well, not just because they're mysogynists - it's because a space marine is an eight foot tall, shaven headed, hormone-fuelled ball of muscle. If someone wanted to actually play female marines who kept to that, then I would have no problem (in fact, it could be really cool both from a fluff and modelling perspective) but since all people ever seem to want is the right to sculpt some mismatched boobs onto power armour, frankly, I have no problem saying that it violates the theme and spirit of the game. This isn't anime, where little girls wield awesome cosmic power.. it's the grim darkness of the far future, and it's neither grim or dark once you have pretty girls tossing tanks around.

I don't mean this to be offensive, but in my opinion female space marines only exist to appeal to the fetishistic desires of nerds. I guess we're all painting toy soldiers here and few of us have the right to claim any kind of sociological high ground, but this particular brand of femmesploitation leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
 

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My backpack has JETS!
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I guess we're all painting toy soldiers here
This. If someone goes out and drops £20 on some plastic toy soldiers and spends hours carefully converting them, painting them and thinking up some nice back story then I think they should at the very least not the chastised. I think you're missing the point here Mantis. The OP isn't saying "I'm doing female space marines and that's that", he's* saying how he's using GW's models and has created his own little alternate universe or whatever and he's just asking that people respect his right to convert his toy soldiers however he wants. As long as the equipment is WYSIWYG and he's sticking to Codex rules, what is the issue? He's not claiming GW fluff is wrong or overruling anything. If he wants to sculpt tits on a Space Marine, who are you to sit there and call it exploitation? Morality police? Jesus christ.

* assuming male.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
See now, you don't know me, and already you're making assumptions, they don't have to be superhuman... Hell mine aren't, just super well trained, it's the fluff that states they're superhuman, not the rules. As I pointed out, rules are the statlines that make them play a given way. An SAS soldier for example, could kill dozens times his own weight in normal soldiers (proven, not theory), but s/he isn't superhuman, just super trained, at the peak of fitness and efficiancy.

Right, now I don't go sticking tits on my SM armour, I have fluff to go with the characters, they aren't all pretty, as I pointed out, some are alien. You woudn't want to mess with them, they would kick your butt into the middle of the next millenium. But, they do have feelings in the storyline, a past, sometimes not a nice past, they are people, with all that goes with it. The biggest difference besides that I allow females in my marines are that they are, essentially, knights. They have honour. Unlike the actual GW fluff where everybody is an SOB with a bad attitude to everybody else, mine are good, basically. Of course like in any real war there are morons on both sides, there are good people on both sides, it's not clear cut. My Howling banshees don't go chopping up people just because they aren't Eldar. They go chopping them up because, frankly they are on the side of the good guys, who consequently, don't go blasting Eldar. They help each other. Some are good, some are bad, but they fight for a good cause. Not out of hate. My fluff is far removed from GW's own. My campaign is set just a couple of years away, when Earth gets invaded by a bunch of bi-atches that want to rule the galaxy. The Space marines come and help. As a result some humans go with them, some as guards, some as marines. Remember, Vasquez in Aliens was one ugly momma, but she fit in, and she was female. There are women in almost all modern armies, and I have just expanded on that.

Thanks Ravendove, I was still writing this when you posted. Yes I am male. The story was around before I picked up WH40K, having used numerous rules to run it, eventually settled on 40k for its simplicity.
 

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Drills baby.
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Then you are quite clearly not playing in the 40k universe and cannot claim that you do. If you don't, no problem, but going to an internet forum and saying that "in my 40k universe, there are female marines and everyone hugs kittens when not fighting" is just asking for trouble since the vast majority of all 40k players conform to the standards set by Games Workshop about 40k. They are, in a way, absolute. You can always chose to not conform to these standards, but then you cannot really expect anyone else to care about it all (I can claim that in my vision of 'Star Wars' Darth Vader runs around in pink armour. Doesn't mean I'm right though) .
The 40k universe have some clearly set guide lines for what is and isn't okay and female marines is one of those no-noes.

If you say that your army is Space Marines, people assume the following:

1. They are superhuman (like, you know, you can't toss a shoe in 40k without hitting a reference to that simple fact)

2. They are extremely fighty and all their time revolves around killing stuff or training to kill stuff

3. They are male (as established by the canon background published by GW)

Saying that your Space Marines are not superhuman, just very well-trained, clearly makes them something else. Not Space Marines.

The 40k universe is a grim, dark place where any hope for progress and peace has since long been crushed by an armoured boot stamping on the human face. The 'good guys' (Imperium, Eldar, Tau) are fascistic jerk asses who make the Third Reich seem like a pretty nice place and who are content on wiping out/conquering everything else because they claim that it is their destiny (the Tau fluff even mentions that they consider it the manifest destiny of their race to possess the entire galaxy). Part of what makes 40k the intriguing place it is is because it takes the concept of 'darker and edgier' so far into comedic absurdity that it becomes a place so unreal that all these over the top-things just fits each other perfectly.

In the end, yeah you are completely entitled to your opinions and you may do whatever you want with the stuff you have spent your hard-earned cash on.
 

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I don't mean this to be offensive, but in my opinion female space marines only exist to appeal to the fetishistic desires of nerds. I guess we're all painting toy soldiers here and few of us have the right to claim any kind of sociological high ground, but this particular brand of femmesploitation leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
For me it's not a desire to see sculpted breasts on power armour or anything like that. Nor is it some sexual fetish where I'd love to meet an 7-8ft tall woman with interests such as fanatical devotion and purging the heretic. I simply want to see diversity. I want Marines to be the best of mankind, male or female. I want male Sisters of Battle equivelants too. I want all the armies to have equal representation of both genders (excluding obviously Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons).

There is no set of guidelines to adhere to. 40k is very loose and fast with its factual background. GW rarely keeps anything internally consistent, and fans improvise or develop snippets of information all the time. There is no set 40k universe. It's a barebones structure designed originally for, more or less, roleplaying. Whereas Star Wars for example has clear, set out canon, GW to my knowledge have never set down anything of the sort. Everyones interpretation of the 40k universe is valid.

There are numerous reasons you can use to make up female marines, and as Ravendove said, if you're spending money on it, do whatever you damn well please with it. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Actually the whole 'superhuman' bit went out the window with the last IG codex if you think about it. GW screwed up there.

Sgt. Casseus of the Ultramarines turned to his Heavy Bolter operator, "You see that Gretchin over there? Kill him."
"Okay Sergeant, just wait while I set this thing so I can fire it."

"Don't bother lads..." Gunnery Sgt. Harker's Heavy bolter boomed out, killing not just the gretchin but 2 of his mates as well, "I've already done it." At this point he moved along.
The 2 marines looked at each other, "You wimp, you're supposed to be superhuman, super strong, but can't fire that on the move...."

As for the comment about the Sisters of Battle, they were only added to appease the female players who did want to see women in Power armour, it saved them rewriting the fluff to include proper female marines.

What I'm saying, is that GW wrote the fluff, okay that's their storyline, but it doesn't mean that in other alternate storylines there can't be female marines, they don't 'have' to be gene enhanced, 8 foot tall (which I still dispute when you put one next to a guardsman, as that would mean every guardsman is around 7 feet tall also) testosterone filled morons.

And yes I have seen something somewhere with a pink Darth Vader, Star Wars has spun more spoofs than any other film. But seriously, GW had a choice when they wrote the fluff, back in the 80's the only real army to have women was the Russians, others like ours had token chicks in uniform doing secretarial work, basically. So that's how GW wrote the game. Now things have vastly changed, there are women fighting and dying in the front line in wars all over the world, alongside the men, and every bit their equal.

And saying they aren't space marines just because they aren't gene enhanced is laughable, go to Youtube and type in the term 'female Space marine' and one of the top vids is from the aliens films. So they are considered to be 'space marines', by definition if they serve on a space ship, as opposed to a sea going ship, they are automatically space marines, I think you'll find the term was around before GW coined it.

And by the way, where did the bit about hugging kittens come from, not everybody who's good spends their time doing that you know, what they really do is fight for justice, not unending wars of pointlessness. There are good people in the British army, but they don't all go 'hugging kittens' when off duty. I don't play my own games in the 40k universe, nor did I say I do. Read my post, as I said, we either choose to play with their fluff or just use the rules, which just happen to be a reasonably simple set of wargames rules, and perfect for my storyline.
 

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The debate gets to the core issue of whether 40k is a hobby or a board game. Your pieces can look like anything but, if your fluff contradicts the well-established parts of the background story of 40k then it creates so many anachronisms that it destroys the game universe. If I want my Space Marine Chapter "Lords of Pwnage" to be led by the Emperor Resurrected and be the first recruits in the Second Great Crusade, it isn't enough to say that the Emperor 'counts as Mephiston'. I'm steamrolling the way everybody else is thinking about their own army and its place in the 40k universe.

I want Marines to be the best of mankind, male or female.
Umm...Marines don't represent the best of mankind. They're brainwashed humans augmented into superhuman killing machines. They aren't even allowed a normal childhood, for pity's sake, let alone a well-rounded education or normal standard of morality.

So, first we're allowing female Marines, and then we're rewriting Marine fluff so that they're good guys, which means they fight the Imperium's injustices along with other threats, so there's a civil war between the branches of the Imperium, and because the Marines aren't genocidal they accept help from the Tau and Eldar and encourage humans to live in peace with them, and of course the Eldar will help humanity tap its psychic potential so we don't have to fear Chaos anymore, and...things keep snowballing. Really, if you aren't even intending to model female Marines as being female then there's just no point to doing it.
 

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Drills baby.
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I want Marines to be the best of mankind, male or female. I want male Sisters of Battle equivelants too. I want all the armies to have equal representation of both genders (excluding obviously Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons).
1. All the organs and stuff Games Workshop Space Marines need to be superhuman are only compatible with male hormonial structures. Clearly stated in the "Creation of a Space Marine" document and just about every Space Marine codex.

2. In the fluff, the Sisters of Battle were formed as the standing army of the Ecclessiarchy due to laws being passed after the Age of Apostasy that the Ecclessiarchy can not have men under arms. Thus, a female army was allowed...

What I'm saying, is that GW wrote the fluff, okay that's their storyline, but it doesn't mean that in other alternate storylines there can't be female marines, they don't 'have' to be gene enhanced, 8 foot tall (which I still dispute when you put one next to a guardsman, as that would mean every guardsman is around 7 feet tall also) testosterone filled morons.
And Rhinos are supposed to fit 10 marines. My point is that 40k models are not to scale. If they were, your average combat knife would be the length of your leg and Joe Regular the Imperial Guardsman's hands would be the size of his head. It's a modelling scale called 'heroic'.


And saying they aren't space marines just because they aren't gene enhanced is laughable, go to Youtube and type in the term 'female Space marine' and one of the top vids is from the aliens films. So they are considered to be 'space marines', by definition if they serve on a space ship, as opposed to a sea going ship, they are automatically space marines, I think you'll find the term was around before GW coined it.
Of course it was around before GW used it, no one is questioning that, but you are generalising all space marines from all different works of fiction. Games Workshop Space Marines are clearly defined as superhuman and male.

I don't play my own games in the 40k universe, nor did I say I do. Read my post, as I said, we either choose to play with their fluff or just use the rules, which just happen to be a reasonably simple set of wargames rules, and perfect for my storyline.
Well yes, you did say that. You also complained that people gave you strange looks when you came to a 40k event and expected them to be cool with your non-40k approach.

And brining this up in a 40k fluff forum is kinda like shooting yourself in the foot, no?

PS. Please, by no means think that I'm insulting you or anything. I just think you might have taken the wrong approach to this debate...
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
But let's face it, if you're playing a stranger in a GW shop, do you even think about the fluff? Of course not, otherwise you'd be thinking... "I'm a Space Marine, he should let me win because they win everything."

When I'm playing a GW game, then that's fine, it's a GW game, the fact that I'm getting my UM army's butt kicked by Blood Angels who are technically on the same team, is irrelevent, it goes against the game fluff but we still do it. And nobody says a word, but say that in my house campaign I have female marines and they actually are the good guys, and suddenly I'm screwing with everything that should be.... That's like saying the Russians shouldn't have used female pilots to fly fighters in WWII then, because it messed with the status quo.

I'm sorry, it is JUST a game, and if people want to play using GW's version of the unirverse that's fine, I'll abide by that in a GW store or anywhere else I play my army with other people, but indoors, for my own stories, I have my own fluff, there is no great Emperor, as there is no Empire, at least not on the good side, the bad guys are the Empire, who also have marines. And unfortunately have more marines that the Federated Alliance of Free Worlds, who rely more on the Guards and their allies than on the very small (even smaller than GW's) number of highly trained Space Marines. It's because I do sometimes take them out that I used a 'proper' chapter, otherwise I'd have painted them camo. Although nobody objects to my scouts who are painted in camo colours (logic dictates if you want to hide, then you don't paint your armour bright blue), in fact some have remarked on just how cool they look with their helmets on.

BTW, if you want to see my army, just do a quick search for my username on YouTube, I've posted a short vid up of them, camera washed them out and they look a lot better IRL, but it will give you an idea of how I compromise.
 

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Umm...Marines don't represent the best of mankind. They're brainwashed humans augmented into superhuman killing machines. They aren't even allowed a normal childhood, for pity's sake, let alone a well-rounded education or normal standard of morality.

So, first we're allowing female Marines, and then we're rewriting Marine fluff so that they're good guys, which means they fight the Imperium's injustices along with other threats, so there's a civil war between the branches of the Imperium, and because the Marines aren't genocidal they accept help from the Tau and Eldar and encourage humans to live in peace with them, and of course the Eldar will help humanity tap its psychic potential so we don't have to fear Chaos anymore, and...things keep snowballing. Really, if you aren't even intending to model female Marines as being female then there's just no point to doing it.
Thanks. I love it when people talk down to me. Really, it's awesome. I forgot how you could read minds. You're right, I want Disney sensibilities in 40k. I didn't mean "best" to refer to martial prowess, feats of stamina, legendary endurance, awesome psychic control... none of those things. I wanted Space Marines to be fluffy bunny lovers. And 40k to be a farming sim. And I'll remember that fluff needs to have models to support it.

1. All the organs and stuff Games Workshop Space Marines need to be superhuman are only compatible with male hormonial structures. Clearly stated in the "Creation of a Space Marine" document and just about every Space Marine codex.

2. In the fluff, the Sisters of Battle were formed as the standing army of the Ecclessiarchy due to laws being passed after the Age of Apostasy that the Ecclessiarchy can not have men under arms. Thus, a female army was allowed...
Yup, well aware of the fluff GW posits thanks. Again, talking down is awesome. Again, I said "equivelants". That does not mean "Brothers of Battle", nor does it mean that suddenly the Ecclessiarchy suddenly runs around with an all male army. However I digress, what you did, DMC, was compare 40k and Star Wars from a canonical stand point. Star Wars has a very rigidly enforced canon. GW does not. Whilst there are things certain people agree on, for example... "The Emperor sits on the Golden Throne", not everyone agrees on what the Emperor is, or even what the Golden Throne is. Now some people will play the game and decide there is no Emperor on a Golden Throne. It may not be your interpretation of the 40k universe, and it definetely isn't GW's. But at the same time GW aren't kicking down your door and confiscating armies that they don't agree with, nor are they even putting up a primer of canonical events.

The 40k and FB universes are only adhered to when people agree to. I'm not saying the fluff GW is written is wrong, all I'm saying if I had my way it would be different, there's more the "X troops should be Y gender" argument than sexual wish fulfillment, and when you spend your money you can do what you damn well please.
 

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Son of LO
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If he wants to sculpt tits on a Space Marine, who are you to sit there and call it exploitation? Morality police? Jesus christ.
Damn right.. now respect my authoritah!

You've missed my point though.. Exploitation isn't necessarily a bad thing. We all milk other people (real or imaginary) to fulfil sexual or emotional fantasies and most of the time we don't even realize we're doing it. Why do you think I haven't complained about the ridiculous fulfilment fantasies the sisters of battle are swimming in. However, it bugs me that women, especially their passive bodies, are subject to quite so much of it, and speaking personally it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth when people will go to great lengths to insert a fetish-object into a narrative which quite clearly doesn't warrant it. That's all I was ever talking about.. the fact that it's exploitation is not the problem, the problem for me is the fact that I consider it inappropriate and completely uneccesary exploitation. Ultimately, fluff is about narrative, and narratives like that suck because they're written much more for the author's gratification than that of the audience.

In short, of course you can do what you like in private as long as its not illegal. Heck, you can find internet images of your childhood cartoon heroes having sex and masterbate to it if you want. The problem arises when you interject your personal fetish-objects into public discourse and expect people to like it. Why would they? You're not doing it for them.

Now, from the gender studies perspective the idea of eight foot tall (yes, in the fluff they are - and in the dawn of war games, they certainly are.. in fact they're more like 10 in dawn of war) testosterone enhanced women with bulging muscles who can crush skulls with their bare hands (that's what strength 4 means, it's an order of magnitude above strength 3) actually appeals to me immensely because it's a total gender **** (technical terminology) and I would love to see someone do it. A serious explanation of what femininity can mean to such a creature might also be a worthwhile narrative project, or at least would be interesting.

Zond said:
For me it's not a desire to see sculpted breasts on power armour or anything like that. Nor is it some sexual fetish where I'd love to meet an 7-8ft tall woman with interests such as fanatical devotion and purging the heretic. I simply want to see diversity. I want Marines to be the best of mankind, male or female. I want male Sisters of Battle equivelants too. I want all the armies to have equal representation of both genders (excluding obviously Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons).
Your sentiment is acknowledged and I'm in agreement to a degree. For starters I'd love to see proper female Cadians who could pass for gritty soldiers of the far future rather than a miliary themed glamour shoot, but it's unlikely to happen because demand is too low and, in any case, GW know that the nerd is predictably distracted by exagerated female anatomy.

Female space marines and male sisters of battle.. I just see no way to do them thematically which would make them remotely palatable, though. The former is superhuman and is meant to have a severely distorted form which would render any female version too androgynous for average nerd consumption, and the latter would not sell by virtue of being 'weaker space marines'.
 

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Son of LO
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This comes up very frequently, which is in fact very bad since it increases the chance of whatever the OP has to say being dismissed out of hand by people who've heard it all before and are sick of answering the question. That said, I dismiss this out of hand because I'm sick of answering this question. (just kidding.)

No, the real reason people don't generally like female space marines is, well, twofold. The first is that they're not supported by the fluff or the game setting. The question is never addressed, but it's shown, whether because the geneseed doesn't take or because the result is somewhat...butch, female space marines Do Not Work in the 40k universe.

The answer to that is, naturally, (you've said it already) "But I can go outside GW fluff, right? I mean, it's a game, I can just make up what I want and choose to make up female space marines." And, yeah, you can do that. It's true, this is all made-up and you can make up your own stuff. But at that point, you're not really playing Warhammer, you're playing this own setting that you've invented. And when you go to a bunch of other guys who like Warhamemr fluff, they're going to be a little miffed because you've messed about with the setting. And they like the setting, you know.

The best response I've ever heard came on this forum - I think from Mantis - and it was something along the lines of "You can have your female space marines, but they're eight feet tall, hairless, have no body fat, their muscles obscure their breasts and they have no sex drive whatsoever." That's the kind of female space marine I'd like to see: one that is a brutal deconstruction of everything people want or expect from female space marines in general, which seems to be Amazons in power armour. I mean, you have SoB for that.

Zond said:
For me it's not a desire to see sculpted breasts on power armour or anything like that. Nor is it some sexual fetish where I'd love to meet an 7-8ft tall woman with interests such as fanatical devotion and purging the heretic. I simply want to see diversity. I want Marines to be the best of mankind, male or female. I want male Sisters of Battle equivelants too. I want all the armies to have equal representation of both genders (excluding obviously Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons).
One could argue that the mere fact that there are aliens and daemons and soul-eating robot gods is more diversity than any mere gender divide could possibly summon up. But, before we argue that: Daemons? Really? You exclude them? Where were you when the Daemonette models came out? They used to be the only boobs in 40k.

Warhammer: where the only acceptable boob is daemon fetish boob.
 

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One could argue that the mere fact that there are aliens and daemons and soul-eating robot gods is more diversity than any mere gender divide could possibly summon up. But, before we argue that: Daemons? Really? You exclude them? Where were you when the Daemonette models came out? They used to be the only boobs in 40k.

Warhammer: where the only acceptable boob is daemon fetish boob.
I was standing there thinking how sad it was that the only way to represent excess was with boobs.
 

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One could argue that the mere fact that there are aliens and daemons and soul-eating robot gods is more diversity than any mere gender divide could possibly summon up. But, before we argue that: Daemons? Really? You exclude them? Where were you when the Daemonette models came out? They used to be the only boobs in 40k.

Warhammer: where the only acceptable boob is daemon fetish boob.
I was standing there thinking how sad it was that the only way to represent excess was with boobs.
 

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Son of LO
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I was standing there thinking how sad it was that the only way to represent excess was with boobs.
Well, what would be more appropriate? A fat guy munching cheetos and sobbing? A heroin addict looking into a wholly different world than we do? Someone counting their money whilst taking a bath of money whilst wearing a hat made of money? (The bath is on wheels)

If you're going to have excess, it may as well be excessive boob. Anything else is just slightly depressing. Except the money bath man. That would be pimp.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
"The 40k and FB universes are only adhered to when people agree to. I'm not saying the fluff GW is written is wrong, all I'm saying if I had my way it would be different, there's more the "X troops should be Y gender" argument than sexual wish fulfillment, and when you spend your money you can do what you damn well please."

Thanks Zond, somebody who has read my post(s) properly and sees where I'm coming from. I would agree that if I was only using the models, and other rules then I would not be playing 40k.

There are many ways to play 40K

Yes the main one, using all the rules and fluff that GW writes, (some of which doesn't even make sense if you look over the history of 40K) But which we, as a community, accept is their canon.

The second is to just use the models, and either our own rules and fluff, or somebody else's rules and/or fluff. Which I have also done, (Anybody remember Metascape?), but for a full on battle Metascape didn't work, it was too cumbersome and not designed around any kind of fighting (it took too long).

Finally there's the third method, a compromise, I like the rules, they are workable, and easy enough to get in and play the game. I like the fluff, from a fiction point of view I do read some of the books, (The entire Ultramarines set, Gaunt's Ghosts, etc.) But their fluff doesn't fit with my already written campaign, so in my house rules, it had to go, I only wanted the rules, nothing more. And that's where I was coming from, people are invited to post their own fluff, yet if anyone posts something (anywhere on the net) that doesn't strictly adhere to GW's Fascist styled universe (which let's face from their own fluff isn't what the Emperor intended at all) they get some of the comments here. I know female players who feel like they're being forced into sisters of Battle just because they're girls. They would like to see female marines, and guardsmen, because they (like most people) can relate to humans more easily.

Mine isn't any kind of sexual fetish, my storyline was created before I ever got involved in 40k, long before it was even invented in fact. And to prove my statement about sexual fetishes for those who still insist I just want space marines with big tits.. I have a female Jaguar, she is the most powerful character in my army, and believe me, you wouldn't dare get horny with her, she hates men, if you tried she would rip your mind apart psychically. She has multiple attacks, and since most of my battles are Apocalypse, that is with a weapon striking at Strength 10, Initiative 10, and on the charge roughly 7 attacks. (Using the Legion Relic asset coupled with the quickening). So no, it's nothing to do with sexual fetish, my enemy have merely wiped out or enslaved vast swathes of the males in the galaxy, leaving the armies sitting on around 50/50 male to female. The fluff and story behind mine is of loss, new friends, reliance on each other to overcome all sorts of enemies, and fighting, lots of it. And no kitten hugging, try it and the kittens in question will probably rip your throat out (6 foot tall F'raxi in 7 foot power armour tend to do that).
 

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While I see completely where you're coming from it's still a little naive to think that people won't react when you mention that your Space Marine model is a lady-panther while you're playing a game of 40K TT. It's absolutely up to you what you decide to imagine is 'inside' the armour, just as it's fine for others to accept the GW stories and explanations. It all comes down to where you draw the line between fluff and the game (by game I mean a TT battle using current 40K/Codex rules), not everyone draws a lot of distinction between the two when in fact they are very very different, you only have to read a Codex to see that. It's understandable when people don't make that separation, after all both of them are often presented on the same page of rule books and codices.

Ultimately, you've spent your money, it's up to you what you do with or imagine about your models but be prepared to explain it every time as it is by definition a divergent setting for the TT game.
 
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