[Seanchadith]

I couldn't find many discussions on how people equip battle wagons, so I thought it might be helpful and fun to start a discussion thread on them.

There are tons of new and exciting options on the Battle Wagon, making for creative gaming and modeling. How do you equip yours, and why?

I just built one from scratch and am preparing to paint it, but so far it is pretty minimalist, with armor plates (and soon red paint) but not much else. I'm considering adding:

Grot riggers, 4x rokkits, Kannon, and KillKannon.

Surprisingly and disapointingly, it appears that BWs cannot be armed with Skorchas now, so scrap that idea.
Also strange, the Kannon option costs the same as a lowley rokkit.

I'm not sure if I want to do the Kill Kannon or just stick with the smaller weaps. On one hand, this thing is already going to be a big fragile target, and strapping on an additional 60 points could be a waste. It also prohibits 20-strong mobz. Furthermore, I'm not sure on the rules about moving and firing an ordnance weapon, but I think it isn't allowed.
On the other hand, the awesome power of a KK is tempting for an orker like me. Imagine dropping an ordnance on a big group of Necrons and then taking out the survivors with rokkits and kannon fire. Also, it make the BW a big threat after it has fulfilled the transport roll (drop a bunch of nobz out).

Any thoughts?

 

[NovaJohn]

don't bother with the killcannon, you cant fire kk and rokkits etc. its either ordanance or the rest.

with 4 rokkits and kannon you could make your points back fairly quickly, but you couldn't move as all those weapons are offensive so you could only fire 1 a turn. If you took 4 big shootas and a kannon you could move 7" with red paint and fire everything.

 

[Gorfang]

Don't have one yet but when I make one it will have a deffrolla guaranteed, and just steamroll people, possibly with some big shoota action, but most likely just a squad of burnas inside.

 

[psichotykwyrm]

My BW has 4x Big Shootas, red paint, grot riggers, and armor plates. The reason that I don't take any bigger guns is because I want it to keep moving, so I can let the 10-15 Tankbustas inside do the real dirty work.

I made my BW out of a junky Land Raider; just cut the top and hatches off, then slapped on the Big Shootas and some Orky bits. I'll throw some pics up when I get a chance, after its painted.

 

[MouseC112]

Here's some thoughts:
1. A battlewagon should always have a dedicated role before you use one. For example, do you want it to be transporting, or shooting.
2. Armored top or no? again this comes down to your role
3. Weapons layout.

Other thoughts
Do not take 4 rokkits. No matter how much you think this is useful, its really not. They are offensive weapons, as result you cannot shoot more than 1 if you move. This is a waste. Your taking 4 rokkits, so you have to stay in 1 spot. This is incredibly bad for orks. Orks live and day, win and loss, by mobility. So if you want to shoot, your should have 1 high strength weapon, and then defensive weapons IE big shootas. If you want your wagon to kill marines, take the kill kannon as you should always be moving at the enemy anyway.

If your transporting, then should take the wagon, and no weapons. At this point you should have red paint job, and always be moving 13 inches EVERY turn. Until your going move 7 inches, then hop out and assault. Don't waste your options. Think it through carefully.

Wyrm's layout above is exactly what you should be considering. it has 12 str 5 shots, and then has the tankbustas. The tankbustas can engage a different target then the vehicle, and your increasing your range for the rokkits by 6 inches. Plus no where does it say you still can't use Bomb squigs from a vehicles. So go head!

If you want to use a kilcannon, then you take armored top, and the killcannon, that's it. Don't even think about giving it a dual roll, as basically you have a leman russ demolisher with no sponsons. The only reason to give it big shootas is if you lose the cannon, you have a 2ndary role to fill, and then it can still support.

Grot riggers, 4x rokkits, Kannon, and KillKannon.
-this layout really is wasting the vehicle
-you can do better with less, and for less points, yes its really shooty and scarey, but you can be out manuevered really easily, your side armor is garbage, so think about how to use it. With a killcannon you need to be either hull down, hiding one of your facings, or protecting your facings with kila kans, or buggies which block LOS.

 

[mynameisgrax]

Screeech!

Here's some thoughts:
1. A battlewagon should always have a dedicated role before you use one. For example, do you want it to be transporting, or shooting.
2. Armored top or no? again this comes down to your role
3. Weapons layout.

Other thoughts
Do not take 4 rokkits. No matter how much you think this is useful, its really not. They are offensive weapons, as result you cannot shoot more than 1 if you move. This is a waste. Your taking 4 rokkits, so you have to stay in 1 spot. This is incredibly bad for orks. Orks live and day, win and loss, by mobility. So if you want to shoot, your should have 1 high strength weapon, and then defensive weapons IE big shootas. If you want your wagon to kill marines, take the kill kannon as you should always be moving at the enemy anyway.

If your transporting, then should take the wagon, and no weapons. At this point you should have red paint job, and always be moving 13 inches EVERY turn. Until your going move 7 inches, then hop out and assault. Don't waste your options. Think it through carefully.

Wyrm's layout above is exactly what you should be considering. it has 12 str 5 shots, and then has the tankbustas. The tankbustas can engage a different target then the vehicle, and your increasing your range for the rokkits by 6 inches. Plus no where does it say you still can't use Bomb squigs from a vehicles. So go head!

Yes, you can use bomb squigs from inside an open topped vehicle...but you really shouldn't. First of all, you shouldn't leave that sucker open topped at all, really. That's just a waste of all the points you put into having such a heavily armored vehicle. I mean, what's the point of its great armor, if it's easy to disable or blow up? Second, the bomb squig has a 1 in 6 chance of it going for the nearest vehicle, instead of the target.

Do you know what vehicle that will be? The one your tankbustas are inside of!

Not only do you have a 1 in 6 chance of wasting the squig, but you have a good chance of at the very least damaging their own transport, while they're using it, and at the worst, causing it to explode while they're inside! It's just too much of a risk.

You're right on about everything else though. Don't put rokkits on vehicles, do big shootas instead, and get all of your shots, even when moving.

Honestly, I wouldn't use the killkannon at all. It's only useful at close range, and if you're moving it close to the enemy, you're better off putting on a deff-rolla, which works really well against just about anything.

My setup:

Hardcase
Deff-rolla
Red paint
4 Big shoota
Grott riggers

If you're light on points, drop the deff-rolla, and if your heart is set on ordnance, use a looted wagon instead. It's only 125 points for a looted wagon with an ordnance gun and a hardcase, and even with the light armor, they can be very effective. A battlewagon is going to run at least 50-60 points more, have 12in less range, and 1 less strength. Why pay more for less? The Battlewagon can survive better, certainly, but so can a mob of 30 boyz. The job of an ordnance gun isn't to survive, but to blow things up from a long range. The looted wagon simply does it better.

Battlewagons are useful, but only on the front line, plowing over enemies with rollas and gunfire, while delivering a team of your deadliest orks into the thick of combat. That's what they were meant to be.

 

[Monkeyclops]

Putting an armoured top on a BW or LW transporting troops is not the greatest of ideas. Putting that Armoured Top on removes the 'open-topped' part of the wagon, which means you can no longer assault the turn you disembark, which is the one greatest strength of the Ork transports. Only ever go with the Armoured Top when you are not using the wagon as a troops transport. Even when transporting Tankbustas around to fire out of the Wagon, the Armoured Top then gives the wagon fire points, which means only 2 or 3 Tankbustas can fire each turn, you want all of them firing.

Also, whether it be a LW or a BW, you should always put atleast 1 Big Shoota on there, if not 2. By using a LW as a Transport with no weapons you are giving the enemy 2 chances to Immobilize it. Since, once all weapons are gone, an Armorment Destroyed becomes Immobilzed.

 

[Seanchadith]

Hmm, its frusterating that the rokkit and killkannon options suck so much.

So what do ya'll think about boarding planks and reinforced rams? Steals, or wastes?

 

[MouseC112]

bwagon options

Hmm, its frusterating that the rokkit and killkannon options suck so much.

So what do ya'll think about boarding planks and reinforced rams? Steals, or wastes?

The options don't suck, they just have a dedicated role. Battlewagon rokkits though are a little wasteful as you can't move/ fire all of them. However, if you have to hold an objective, and the wagon gets to be stationary it can be quite the force at armor 14, with 4 rokkits. The killkannon essential makes the battlewagon a demolisher with transport capability. The strength is a little lower, however its cheaper, and more versatile.

Never underestimate the idea of just taking the following. Its dirt cheap. And the fire points allow for a total of 5 big shootas, 1 coming from inside, you can even add a kannon on just in case. Allows a lot of movement, and dedicate to shooting. People say ork BS sucks, but that many shots you should hit usually 5-7, wounding 4-5. Force saves, things will die.
Wagon
+Ard top
+4 big shootas
+red paint (if points available)
+squad of 10 orks with Big shoota.

 

[Monkeyclops]

Ok, I told myself I'd stop talking about the coming 5th Ed rules until it got closer, but I feel this should be mentioned here. It is highly likely that in the 5th Ed rules coming out this summer that Defensive Weapons will drop from S5 to S4, meaning that Big Shootas will now be an Offensive weapon. Hence, like Rokkits, if you move you can only fire 1.

 

[mynameisgrax]

Maximum suckage

Ok, I told myself I'd stop talking about the coming 5th Ed rules until it got closer, but I feel this should be mentioned here. It is highly likely that in the 5th Ed rules coming out this summer that Defensive Weapons will drop from S5 to S4, meaning that Big Shootas will now be an Offensive weapon. Hence, like Rokkits, if you move you can only fire 1.

Well that sucks. Loading them up with big shootas is part of their charm. Regardless, even if I could only use one, I'd still use big shootas over rokkits. Since they have a BS of 2, 3 shots is more effective than 1. Now, if you were planning to keep it stationary, 4 rokkits wouldn't be bad at all, but if you only get one weapon, I'd go with the one that's far more certain to hit at least once.

As for the hard case, I don't usually put assault troops inside them, so I didn't think it would be an issue. If you're planning to use the troops inside to assault, such as with teams of nobz, then yes, you want to keep it open topped. On the other hand, if you're transporting tankbustas or burnas, your priority is keeping them alive. An open top will certainly give you more shots, but from experience, open topped vehicles (besides trukks) die a lot easier than closed topped ones.

 

[MouseC112]

Ok, I told myself I'd stop talking about the coming 5th Ed rules until it got closer, but I feel this should be mentioned here. It is highly likely that in the 5th Ed rules coming out this summer that Defensive Weapons will drop from S5 to S4, meaning that Big Shootas will now be an Offensive weapon. Hence, like Rokkits, if you move you can only fire 1.

Wanna name that source there? I'm curious...

 

[Monkeyclops]

Wanna name that source there? I'm curious...

Bell of Lost Souls has posted 4 installments of 40k 5th Edition Rumors. Here is #3, which mentions S4 being Defensive on Vehicles:

Bell of Lost Souls: RUMORS: 40k 5th Edition - Round 3!

 

[MouseC112]

Thank you for that clarification... although it effectively means I can hurl some of my battlewagons in the trash/ sell them... i have 5... it is good to know. Nice to know that big shootas on vehicles could now be a whole lot of suck! Ah well. More orks it is!

 

[psichotykwyrm]

Not to be a big nay-sayer, but do ya think we could leave the 5th Edition rumors in the "Rumors Section"?:?

We should probably only discuss what is current everywhere else, at least so we don't confuse people...:happy:

 

[Monkeyclops]

As I said I wasn't going to mention it, but I figured I'd be a good neighbor and make Ork BW builders aware of the possible change so that they don't go spending all sorts of time building a BW and then finding out about the new rule.

I'd suggest any BW builders to either leave weapons/upgrades off for the time being or magnetize everything to be safe.