Power of the Lumbering Machine Spirit Behemoth - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member isitused's Avatar
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    Power of the Lumbering Machine Spirit Behemoth

    Recently while reading up on some D&D in my local game shop. I overheard two people "discussing" the Imperial guard Lumbering Behemoth rule.

    The Lumbering rule says the russ can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapon the vehicle would normally be able to fire. If a russ doesn’t move it may fire all weapons as well as its turret, great no argument, if it moves 6'' it can fire 1 gun + the turret, again no argument.

    So would a Russ moving over 6'' (lumbering 6''+d6'') still be able to fire its turret?
    Also if a Russ is shaken or stunned would it still be able to fire, just like a machine spirit?

    Power of the Machine Spirit allows the land raider to fire an additional weapon over the norm. The rule is followed by an example that states that even if the raider is shaken or stunned it can still shoot one gun.

    So what say you mighty sages of LO?

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  3. #2
    Member Hockeyman506's Avatar
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    You just wrote down the answer in your post.

    1) "A Leman Russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationary....."

    If a Russ moves more than 6 inches, it is moving at cruising speed so Lumbering Behemoth becomes a moot point and you have to refer back to the BRB.

    So no, it may not fire any weapons when moving more than 6 inches.


    2) "...can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapon the vehicle would normally be able to fire."

    Since shaken and stunned don't normally allow any weapons to be fired, the turret can't fire.



    Think of it this way. Anytime the BRB says that no weapons may be fired, ignore Lumbering Behemoth.

  4. #3
    Son of LO ze_poodle's Avatar
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    This is another opportunity for Marine players to chuckle paternalistically at your Leman Russ and pat their Land Raider fondly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockeyman506 View Post
    You just wrote down the answer in your post.

    1) &quot;A Leman Russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationary.....&quot;

    If a Russ moves more than 6 inches, it is moving at cruising speed so Lumbering Behemoth becomes a moot point and you have to refer back to the BRB.

    So no, it may not fire any weapons when moving more than 6 inches.


    2) &quot;...can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapon the vehicle would normally be able to fire.&quot;

    Since shaken and stunned don't normally allow any weapons to be fired, the turret can't fire.



    Think of it this way. Anytime the BRB says that no weapons may be fired, ignore Lumbering Behemoth.
    So, wehre PotMS says you can fire one more weapon than is normally allowed and then goes to give a specific example of it shooting while shaken/stunned, it can do so, but Lumbering behemoth is nearly identical and says it " A LR that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can fire it turret weapon in addition to any other weapon it is usually allowed to fire.." and it doesn't give an example. so is it that it can't shoot because there's no example given like in PotMS? but if thats not the case and the russ remained stationary or moved up to the 6" then wouldnt it still be meeting the prerequsits to fire the additional weapon since the additional is like a 1+0? I might be reading it wrong, but that seems kinda lame if the only one up reasoning PothMS has is its example thats given since both special rules are almost the same.

  6. #5
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    PotMS also specifically mentions stunned vehicles, and that's the main difference here.
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    Member Hockeyman506's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eafchunk View Post
    " A LR that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can fire it turret weapon in addition to any other weapon it is usually allowed to fire.." and it doesn't give an example. so is it that it can't shoot because there's no example given like in PotMS? but if thats not the case and the russ remained stationary or moved up to the 6" then wouldnt it still be meeting the prerequsits to fire the additional weapon since the additional is like a 1+0? I might be reading it wrong, but that seems kinda lame if the only one up reasoning PothMS has is its example thats given since both special rules are almost the same.
    Nope. Shaken and stunned don't allow any weapons to be fired. Lumbering Behemoth states that you must be able to fire a weapon. Since the a shaken/stunned Russ cannot fire a weapon, it can't fire its turret.

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    True, shaken and stunned do not allow you to fire unless you have a special rule that allows you to, and Lumbering Behemoth is a special rule, however no where in Lumbering Behemoth does it state that you must be able to fire, it simply states verbatum "A Lemun Russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can fire its turret in addition to any other weapons it is usually allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!) However, a Lemun Russ travelling at cruising speed can only move up to D6 + 6" - roll every time it moves at this speed." It never mentions that you must be able to fire a weapon, it just says that so long as you are stationary or move at combat speed you can shoot what you are allowed to, plus fire your main turret. So going off that if a Lemun Russ is shaken/stunned and it can't shoot/move, so long as it meets the prerequisites, being remaining stationary or moving up to 6", it still has its turret weapon that it can fire in addition to the weapons that it can usually shoot, but those weapons that it can usually shoot, being the hull mounted weapon and any sponsons, are shaken and can't fire. Therefore, the weapons it is usually allowed to fire cannot due the the shaken rule, but it still has an additional weapon that it can fire so long as it meets the prerequisites which is remaining stationary or moving up to 6".

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    Scourge Lord Krovin-Rezh's Avatar
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    Sorry for going off-topic, but it's pretty silly that a Lemony Russ is considered a "lumbering behemoth" while a Bland Raider is not.

    I know, I know. It's GW.

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  10. #9
    Son of LO ze_poodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eafchunk View Post
    True, shaken and stunned do not allow you to fire unless you have a special rule that allows you to, and Lumbering Behemoth is a special rule, however no where in Lumbering Behemoth does it state that you must be able to fire, it simply states verbatum "A Lemun Russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can fire its turret in addition to any other weapons it is usually allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!) However, a Lemun Russ travelling at cruising speed can only move up to D6 + 6" - roll every time it moves at this speed." It never mentions that you must be able to fire a weapon, it just says that so long as you are stationary or move at combat speed you can shoot what you are allowed to, plus fire your main turret. So going off that if a Lemun Russ is shaken/stunned and it can't shoot/move, so long as it meets the prerequisites, being remaining stationary or moving up to 6", it still has its turret weapon that it can fire in addition to the weapons that it can usually shoot, but those weapons that it can usually shoot, being the hull mounted weapon and any sponsons, are shaken and can't fire. Therefore, the weapons it is usually allowed to fire cannot due the the shaken rule, but it still has an additional weapon that it can fire so long as it meets the prerequisites which is remaining stationary or moving up to 6".
    It's really just that the wording implies you have to be able to shoot in the first place. The wording in the PotMS entry has the same implication, but it makes specific mention of the shaken/stunned situation, and that's basically the whole of the difference. We assume you can't do it unless explicitly stated, which it is for the Land Raider but not for the Leman Russ.

    Sorry for going off-topic, but it's pretty silly that a Lemony Russ is considered a "lumbering behemoth" while a Bland Raider is not.
    Land Raiders don't lumber. They raid.
    The above poster = Totally a member of the Fluff Masters Clan. Click here for fluff pwnage.

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    Scourge Lord Krovin-Rezh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ze_poodle View Post
    Land Raiders don't lumber. They raid.
    'Cuz their small and nimble! I get it now!

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