Haha, if only life were that simple, ok the answer to your question is no, in your example the answer is the witch hunter would still deal with it.
Life in the 41st millenium is not even that simple, there are other ways to slice the inquisition, there are puritans and radicals for example which span all three arms,
Puritans would destroy/kill whatever they are targeted at, wheras radicals will use it to kill more,

for example lets take a demon weapon, - a puritan Ordos Maleaus =][= would destroy it, ASAP. But a radical would try and investigate it, firstly to see if he can find out more and use it to destroy more chaos stuff and dsecondly cos frankly, next week when he is facing a demon prince he may regret not having the option, he is likely to try and use it.

This can mean that 2 members of the same order can come into direct conflict (physically on occcasions).

Add to this the varrious conclaves and factions (look up thorians) and you start to get a picture of what the iquisistion really is, then coat it in the possibility that not every inquisitor has completely altruistic and you start to get there.

Try getting hold of the inquisitor rule book (you can down load it from the GW site, see inside the front cover? ----

EVERYTHING YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD IS A LIE

 

thanks so far! (i hope there is mor to come!)
ive read the inquisitor rule book, most bl novels, codices old and new, rule books from rogue trader to 4th edition...but i still cant see through it.
i mean , something like an organisatorial chart or a something like a catalogue of responsibilities, that would be nice.

another question: the inquisitor lord of an (sub)sector, he has all the inq. guys at his command (in his sector). all the different orders, beliefs, puritans or whatever...
or is the individual inq. free to pursue the wrong he finds the most urgent/important, regardless of ordo, local responsibility?

 

maybe i should forget about this, even now, the different law enforcement/intelligence agencies have crossing responsibillities, often work against each other....so this mess will have grown to the nth degree in the next 40k years

 

I think Inquisitors are supposed to be able to act autonomously, so the ordo hereticus inquisitor wouldn't have any obligation to call in the ordo malleus.

However, if an ordo malleus inquisitor got wind of it (part of the reason they're called inquisitors is that they're good at finding out information like this) he might want to conduct his own investigation, and may be somewhat disturbed.

I'd imagine there are also situations where inquisitors from the different groups will cooperate and call in support. Inquisitorial politics are extremely complex, and its likely an inquisitor will have friends in the same faction as him but in different ordos, who can request help from if needs be.

Failure to deal with something constitutes a failure, after all, and failure permanently blots an inquisitors record. If the situation warrants it, I doubt most inquisitors would be too shy about calling in the specialists.

Heresy involving aliens or alien artifacts is the preserve of the ordo xenos, though an ordo hereticus inquisitor who stumbled upon such a thing might feel capable of dealing with it.

Whatever it is, it's going to be a hugely complex system in which a lot individuals with massive liberties and their own wierd agendas attempt to solve mysteries. It's not a perfect system of cooperation, but, if it didn't work, the Imperium wouldn't exist.

Some factions in the inquisition are pretty ordo specific, like the Horusians, who, for obvious reasons, are mostly ordo malleus. Most, however, can be found across all ordos.

 

Also remember that there are several minor Ordos that specialise in more specific types of heresy. It all depends on who discovers the problem and how they think it should be handled. If a witchunter discovers a xenos infestation, he may or may not call on the Ordo Xenos, it all depends on how he interprets the situation. All members of the Inquisition are authorized to stamp out heresy in any form, so he wouldn't have to call in the alien hunters if he felt he could handle it on his own.

 

In terms of power, the Ordo Malleus is certainly the most powerful of all three seeing that it deals with what the Imperium defines as it's greatest threat and secondly, the second function of the Ordo Malleus is to be the watchdog of the Inquisition itself, much like how the Inquisition watches over every other Adept organization.

Inquisitors from the two other Ordos are extremely cautious around any Malleus Inquisitor, male or female, because they are for one, more powerful physically and mentally, the reasons mentioned in the above paragraph and their chamber militant is the best fighting force in the Imperium. That's basically why their top dog of all three, so moving on to the point.

Inquisitors from each Ordo look for cases pertaining to his specialty. Malleus searches for daemons exclusively, Xenos for aliens etc. It is happens quite often that a case that at the superficial level seemed to be Ordo specific is not at all. The more common one is a Hereticus Inquisitor intent on destroying a rebellion only to discover the root of it all is a chaos cult. Hereticus Inquisitors also get screwed with the whole genestealer cult scenario, in any event, if it is small scale, being autonomous they have the authority to deal with it on their own. Even though they are trained in a specific area, it is their duty to serve the Imperium and destroying anything that might harm it is their job. However, if the problem is a major incursion, then they call in the Ordo that specializes in that facet because it's the smartest thing to do.

Pertaining to my two first points, A malleus Inquisitor can hijack any of the cases that the two other Ordo may have if s/he has even the slightest hint that there is chaos at work. This doesn't happen very often because Inquisitors are caught up in their own world and troubles to go and be nosy in other Ordos business. However, I doubt that an Xenos/Hereticus Inquisitor can do the same with an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor unless the former has extreme seniority, prestige, power, what-have-you.

With regards to factions, every Ordo is split in terms of beliefs. The two most common/powerful are Puritans and Radicals. It's just my personal opinion that beliefs systems override Ordo specificity. An Inquisitor will more than likely have close comrades/friends from other Ordos, but a Puritan Inquisitor will rather be dead than associate in any way with a Radical (killing him is the preferred option, rather than let someone else beat him to it HA) regardless of Ordo.

Puritans clan together and Radicals do the same. It's a fact that Puritans grossly outnumber Radicals but the majority of Radicals are extremely powerful in terms of physicality (more often mentally), prestige, influence etc. Radicals are usually very old as their viewpoint changes gradually over time with the battles, politics and other harsh realities they stumble upon once their Inquisitorial career begins. Which is why when a senior puritan preaches to the new inquisitors, he tells them to look at each other very carefully because later on down the road they might hunt each other down when inevitably a few turn to Radicalism.

Inquisitor Lords who control subsectors are rulers of the sector. It's an unhealthy power to me because technically the inquisitor Lord owns the sector. His planets pay tithes, gives recruits for guards etc like every other planetary governor, only this is on a much larger scale. So s/he has a healthy supply of military power, s/he more than likely has superior retinues and other resources. The major difference is, an inquisitor from any Ordo can take over a planet or two, given the nature of the threat. They cannot do such a thing with a High Protector (Inquisitor Lord in control of a sector). Firstly, he has control of a whole sector, which translates his seniority, prestige, power and more often than not, the ability to hand anyone their ass. Any Inquisitor investigating anything in a High Protector's sector goes through the Lord. Of course, if something is afoot and the Lord is radical then the Inquisition as a whole has a problem to deal with, more specifically the Ordo from which the Lord hales. This is very rare (if it ever happened at all) seeing that High Protectors are old and as such set in their ways (puritan).

 

In terms of power, the Ordo Malleus is certainly the most powerful of all three seeing that it deals with what the Imperium defines as it's greatest threat and secondly, the second function of the Ordo Malleus is to be the watchdog of the Inquisition itself, much like how the Inquisition watches over every other Adept organization.

Umm see now I get confused

According to Codex: Witch Hunters they (Hereticus) are the watchdogs of the Inquisition.
Where does it say that Malleus watches the watchmen so to speak?


I guess they could all be watching each other. That would certainly fit the byzanthine nature of the Imperium.

Mezcal

 

i also think the hereticus are the ones who "watch the watchers"

 

Saiyan Sanguine.. Do you have a source for all that info? I've never heard anything about the ordo malleus being more powerful than the other two. That was certainly the case in the old fluff back when inquisitors were first introduced in 40k, but I believe they changed it.

And it's not just puritans and radicals, there are different puritan and radical philosophies. Istvaanians won't hang out with Xanthites, for example, and Thorians are considered misguided by the other Puritans.

Not to mention that those are general guidelines. Inquisitors are a highly educated elite, and like all such elites, they form their own opinions too. One inquisitor in an official Inquisitor campaign suppliment had a wierd cross between Thorian and Istvaanian beliefs.

 

No, he's right, in a sense. The Ordo Malleus are the strongest of the three Ordos from a certain point of view. They have the greatest military power, their training regimes are far more physically demanding than that of the other two, and they have an equal or greater number of psykers to the Ordo Xenos and a definitely larger number compared to the Ordo Hereticus. Their numbers are the largest of the three, and it is stated in the Daemonhunters codex that the Ordo Malleus was designed to "watch the watchers," although that may have been a reference to the Inquisition itself.

This, however, is merely their strength. They are the hammer; they are meant to be the most militant and warlike of the Ordos. When to comes to, for example, studying the effects of a certain xeno poison on a human or steathily investigating and infilitrating a rebellious cult, you'll pick one of the other two. Because a Malleus inquisitor is probably going to call in the Grey Knights and go charging in with his daemonhammer rather than sneak about like a cowardly heretic. The thing is that the Malleus method often works.

An exceedingly simplified explanation is as such: Xenos are the creepy scientists, Hereticus are secret service, and Malleus are the blunt instruments.

 

it is stated in the Daemonhunters codex that the Ordo Malleus was designed to "watch the watchers," although that may have been a reference to the Inquisition itself.

Do you have a reference for this? I can't find it anywhere in my Codex.

An exceedingly simplified explanation is as such: Xenos are the creepy scientists, Hereticus are secret service, and Malleus are the blunt instruments.

You say this yet you agree that the Ordo Malleus are the watchdogs of the Inquisition?

I do agree that the Ordo Malleus is probably the most powerful since they are dealing with what is considered to be the greatest threat to the Imperium, plus they have the Grey Knights.

 

O.K. but say the imperial guard come across a nurgle worshiping ork weird boy who is mind controlling the local populace into worshiping nurgle and orks and other herictal stuff while outfitting them with forbidden orky XenoTech. Who ya gonna call?

 

ghostbusters!

na just kidding i thought id put in my 50 cents in this very confusing topic, i would simply say that they would send out a distress call, now all the different ordos would recieve it and it would depend on a few things about who sorts it out, the inquisitor must consider do they have the power to stop it if not they attempt to not get involved, however if both or all 3 ordos think they can put them down it will be a bit of a race with who gets there first, then it will be abit of a battle of egos and wills such as an ordo mallues inquisitor would step down and let the ordo hereticus inquisitor lord deal with it. I hope i made myself clear with it and we must not forget that the ordos do communicate between eachother too, but if there is a specific situation such as just xeno tech which is discovered by a malleus lets say they will either call in (if possible) an ordo xenos OR if no ordo xenos is available or they think that there is no need for one than they will do the job themselves.

 

nurgle influences? That is the type of thingthat gets everything blown to peices by the grey knights, or a big a$$ orbital strike. The ordo malluess are dealing with potentially the most threatening enemy of all the ordos. They are definatly the most powerful, as their enemys are also the most powerful.

 

Is there such thing as an allianance between ordos? Like to deal with my earlier post, as each ordo is better at dealing with differant things. I.E.

Problem> Nurgle - - Heratics - - Orky XenoTech-
Ordo\/
Malleus-Kill them all!!!- -Kill Them All!!!!- -KILL THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!_
Xenos- Hellllp!- -Helllp!- -Now this we can do!-
Herictus- Hey you just ate my cannoness!- -Mwa Ha Ha! Burn Heritic scum. BURN! - How the hell do you work this thing? (Blows up priest) -

So like wouldn't it make sence to team up and deal with the threat effectivly?
This is important to me as my army Is Sob with Gk allies and a Deathwatch Killteam.

 

An exceedingly simplified explanation is as such: Xenos are the creepy scientists, Hereticus are secret service, and Malleus are the blunt instruments.

i think that the hereticus isnt more secretive than the others...burning people at stakes, the throne of judgement, penitent engines, thats pretty in your face "fear me heretic, your burning flesh smells better then" stuff.

in my view they have the broadest field of responsibilities, so apart from controlling the psykers, weeding out the unprotected ones, controlling the imperial institutions, they destroy cults...so when can a demon come into realspace (apart from the EoT)? through a psyker or when they are summoned by a cult...so instead of fighting the "greatest danger" (malleus) for the imperium they prevent it from happening.
am i rite?

but i like the picture youre painting with the "creepy scientists" and so on!

 

My 2 cents

First off I believe Ordo Malleus are not the most powerful. They are however the most elite and specialized of the 3. Yes Grey Knights kick ass but remember they are still a SM chapter meaning that they number around 1000 grey knights. Now we also know that there are a million worlds in the Imperium. So lets do the math there is a 0.1% chance for one Grey Knight being able to respond to that Demon worshiping Chaos cult, let alone a squad. Yes overall Ordo Malleus are the most capable of the three ordos but that is because they are required to fight a foe that is far more horrible then a heretical preacher or a gang of muties. Ordo Hereticus outnumber them at least 10 to 1 if not way more. Ordo Xenos is middle of the road. In the heart of the Imperium they are pretty rare but on the borders where the Rouge Traders might bring back Xenotech with every trip they make and a tyranid or an orc invasion is a distinct possibility they outnumber even the Ordo Hereticus.

Now as to the original question of where each ordos has jurisdiction. One has to remember that instead of working as a large organization the Inquisition is more like an amalgamation of Individual Inquisitors. Only the Lord and the Lord Grandmaster Inquisitors fly around in large fleets of Blackships. Everything is arranged sort of like the feudal system in medieval europe. Each Inquisitor is a Knight and can chose where he goes what he does and whom he fights. However if his lord calls on him to come and do a particular task or assignment he is bound by his oaths to come and he better have a good excuse if he refuses. It is their loyalties that tie them together and they are:

The Inquisitor is first and foremost a servant of the Emperor. Next most important is his duty as an Inquisitor. In this role he must Guard and protect the Imperium from destruction from the insidious forces of the demon the alien and the heretic. Next in importance is his specialization, his chosen foe and his place in the organizational structure of the Inquisition. Lastly and most informally he bands together with other Inquisitors in a group of likeminded individuals who agree as to what is the best method of serving the Emperor.

What bothers me a little bit is that going by the fluff Inquisitors are far more common then Space marines which are limited to 1000 chapters of 1000 SMs, or about one per world. IMHO the original 9 chapters at least should be bumped up to 10,000 SMs in the fluff. It would cement the importance of those original chapters and only increase the overall amount of SMs by 8.1%

Feel free to correct me on anything if my logic or math is off.

 

are you saying that some chapters should have ten thousand men. Chapters like the ultrmarines and space wolves?

Hw would GW explain that???? They ahve said a lot that chapters can only have 100 marines, other wise they would become too powerful. And if people like calgar get to recruit 9000 more marines, he would be very powerful ANd my capter master would be pissed.

*master to ecceis...blah blah*

why the **** does that ****ing ***** calgar get more ****ing marines than i do. Thats ****ing favouritism. My men are better than his bunch of ****ing ****ies, we should be the ones to have 10 thousand men.

Because, his chapter is first founding.

*end of conversation*

now, if every other 9990 chapter masters did that they would all get v. pissed off with the imperiam. Not something anyone wants.


So if he did that, every chapter would have to have 10000 men.

 

I honestly think that it can be simplified much more than people are making it. No matter what Ordo and Inqusitor is like a Marshal of the old West. He has absolute power to decide right or wrong, can deal out punishment as he sees fit. It doesn't matter if a Ordo Xenos Inquisitor is faced with a Heretic. He will still deal with it. The reason for the Ordos is to allow Inqusitors to specialize. The Ordo Malleus will be more apt to look for Traitors and Daemons. The Ordo Heritics will look more for Heretics, and Ordo Xenos will look more for aliens. No matter who finds which kind of threat, they will either deal with it or they will call for help from the closest ally that can deal with it.

Now to rank of Inquisitors. All Inquisitors start as Interregators or helpers to a Inqusiitor or a Inquisitor Lord. They learn from their master until their master thinks that they are ready to become a Inqusititor. After the become a Inqusitor there isn't much offical rank. It is based mainly on how old, experienced, and good you are at purging threats to the Imperium. After Inqusitor is Inqusitor Lord. They are in charge of sectors. Mostly they are political people. As it states in the
Eisenhorn books, the master of Ordo Xenos wants to get back in the field but he can't because he is now more of a figure head than a actual fighter. This is not to degrade his abilities though.

This is my take on it.

 

Is there such thing as an allianance between ordos? Like to deal with my earlier post, as each ordo is better at dealing with differant things. I.E.

No, because the ordos are not organizations unto themselves. They are a collection of individuals of differing beliefs. A puritan and radical ordo malleus inquisitor may well fight each other if they ever met, while an Istvaanian ordo xenos inquisitor could be helping the Tau sept his puritan commrade is fighting, all in the name of doing what's best for the Imperium, of course.

There are certainly alliances between individual inquisitors, but it would take something truly, truly exceptional for them to bring all three of the chambers militant out at once. Maybe there was a powerful artifact of unknown origins, and several different inquisitors sent troops to try and recover it? Just one idea among many.

I'm still not convinced that the Ordo Malleus is the most important inquisitorial faction, however. Each of the 3 has a abseloutely vital role to play in the running of the Imperium. Without them, everything would literally have fallen apart. Also, as someone has mentioned, don't assume the grey knights are the most powerful force simply because they are individually strong. They are probably outnumbered several thousand to one by the battle sisters, and even the deathwatch are likely significantly more numerous.

 

I also reckon it is the Hereticus who primarily watches the Inquisition, not the Malleus. I would imagine that all Inquisitors constantly police their own and other ordos according to their jurisdiction, which means that if an OH or OM is messing with a pulse rifle he found then some shadowy OX turn up on his doorstep, etc. But they probably routinely let each other slide on minor infractions in return for favours.

This would mean that OH would be most often policing other ordos as it is in their rather broad jurisdiction ("heresy"). Also doesn't it say in Codex WH that the OH was created after the Age of Apostasy to prevent anything like that happening again? They were created to watch the other ordos and the ecclesiarchy.

I've noticed that many (though not all of course ) DH players get drunk on the super-poweredness of their guys and would claim that the OM makes the sun rise and the birdies sing if anyone would believe them...

The way I see it if you think of a modern cop show the OH are the ordinary cops who start the investigation, then if it is determined that it is a daemonic infestation (not simply "chaos worshippers", OH deals with that) then the OM comes in like a SWAT team and makes the OH stand around while they burst in with, as ze-poodle said, rather blunt but effective tactics.

The OX are like CIA or something who come along in white coats, bag all the evidence, and take the Hereticus off the case.

But I think any Inquisitor investigating another ordo (ie. not their own) would be like agent Mulder trying to break the X-files, they would be held up by red-tape and powerful people with powerful friends at every turn. I don't think any Ordo has more "authority" than another. It's not like OM can arrest OH just because they are Malleus and Malleus is somehow "higher in the food chain". Anyone can arrest anyone, officially.

By the way the reason I have used fictional examples instead of the "real world" is because 40k is fictional and relates far more to TV shows than it does to real life

 

actually, they are all probably as powerful as each other.

If there was an ENOURMOUS daemonic incursion. Than pretty much everybody would be called in to deal with it.

If there was an ENOURMOUS rebellion, like the horus heresy, than everyone would fight it.

If there was an ENOURMOUS xeno invasion. Again everyone would deal with it.

I think that the hereticius being the police, malluess being the swat, and xenos being FBI, is probably very accurate.

 

Lord, you are mostly very confused, as Mantis said, consider:

An inqusitor is autonominus, he reports to no one.

Inquisitors broadly belong to specific ordos, this means that is his primary mission, but it does not preclude other activities.

unsurprisingly there are common schools of belief that may be contained in or transcend ordos, generally these will form conclaves. (groups of peers which may or may not have a leader, but there is usually no formal agreement of leader even if there is a recognised one)

an inquisitor can declare another inquisor excommunicate, but since he is only a peer, he runs the risk of being declared traitor himself and wrong, particularly since =][=s often hold vastly different view points, therefore it is far more common for a group of =][= to get to gether to do this, but even then they run the gamut of politics (all their targets friend get together and get back at them - hence schisms)

Equally conclaves occur when a subject needs several views.

Got that? understand everything? good, I repeat, EVERYTHING YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD IS A LIE

 

I may be a novice for commenting on Inquisition organizations but please notice a very important fact about the Inquisitors – they work alone.

Yes it’s true several Inquisitors can work together towards a common goal but as a rule they work alone.

Now why do the Inquisitors work alone? Everyone should realize that a gathering of field specialist would be more efficient in dealing with the day to day activities of the Inquisition (your ordinary cleansing procedures of infection etc.).

Think again. The infection of chaos and heresy are everywhere and the reason for infestation is often unfathomable for man and if you try to understand it you will most certainly become infected yourself.

If the Inquisition was a united branch in a strict hierarchy, you run the risk of loosing an entire branch of the Inquisition to infection. Imagine what happens if a Lord General tainted with Chaos and his people does not notice – the outcome could be disastrous for the Imperium (that’s why the Inquisition exists). Now image what would happen if the Inquisition was operating in a strict hierarchy and the leaders of the hierarchy was corrupted… chaos would rule!

By working alone each Inquisitor are at far greater risk of infection but that risk is worth taking as the Inquisition organization itself are left untainted and can deal with the “traitor�. Even the most powerful (influential) Inquisitors can be dealt with as every Inquisitor (including the newbie’s) fight heresy among themselves.

By having internal conflicts (for example radicals/puritans) the Inquisitors gains valuable experience and skills in in-house fighting and is therefore capable of dealing with any infiltration in their own ranks – you could say that Inquisitors master Chaos.

I believe this is the main reason for inquisitors working alone and therefore all Inquisitors can pass judgment anytime, anywhere – it is the most efficient way to fight the impurities.

 

After the Horus Heresy it became very clear that no organization could hold considerable control without the proper checks. Individuals who secretly studied xenos, daemons, and mutants/heretics were around before the heresy, they weren't Ordos until after when the need became apparent.

When Inquisitors first became mainstream, the Ordo Malleus was the all seeing eye of the inquisition because they are stronger in every way than the other Ordos. It made sense on the superficial level because they are trained harder and yea the Grey Knights are the toughest army to date, if or when the Deathwatch comes out then there will be hard evidence to dispute that, for now, I go by the codex.

Mantis said they changed the fluff, I haven't seen any hard evidence, so apparently i missed something big.

As for the Ordo hereticus being the top dog now, it says in their codex they are the guardians of humanity, not the watchers of the watchers. I took it as something to play up the appeal of a new army seeing that that statement applies to the whole Inquisition as a whole. The name implies that they would be but really, isn't that the structure of the Inquisition itself. It's a self regulating organization, the witch hunter codex to me just really reiterates what the whole Inquisition is about, but maybe thats just me.

Hehe, why do i do these things?...the Ordo hereticus is useless, Xenos is cool ..in my opinion. I mean what does the Ordo xenos have going for them, they study and fight xenos and the mighty deathwatch. Which are just marines from chapters with a history of fighting aliens, which don't get me wrong is great, but can't a chapter just fall upon the aliens when the need arises. Ok ok so being vigilant is a good trait, but what would be better is a good few grey knights trained to fight aliens(which they don't need to, but if it makes the idea sound better...).

And as for the Ordo hereticus, they only got critical acclaim because they accused Magnus the Red and he eventually turned traitor. Of course after that it seemed like a good idea to have a whole Ordo based around heresy. Then the whole Vandire fiasco happened and then it was pretty much cemented. But really who can't do the job of the witch hunters. A rebellion- marines, guard, mutants- marines, guard, everything else they specialize in can be done better by someone else, probably not guard but still. They are masters at torcher, talk to the DA, maybe they might learn something. Daemonhunters dont even bother, they get a psyker trained to rip the information out of your head and throw your dead carcass into space. No time wasting with petty cutting and carving, quick and effecient like it's supposed to be.

BUT Who can do a daemonhunter's job, seriously. Who's chamber militant can land on a planet so potent with chaos energy that the atmosphere alone can corrupt their bodies, destroy them or turn them against their comrades? Nobody except the grey knights. SoB and deathwatch can be corrupted, grey knights can't. How many Xenos and Hereticus Inquisitors are commonly known off the top of your head? Then ask yourself how many Malleus inquisitors are commonly known? Every Ordo is based in secrecy, yes, but the Ordo Malleus takes it to a higher level because again they fight the most destructive threat, a threat that would destroy them if their location was known. Therefore, the two other Ordos have little if any knowledge of how to find Malleus bases, this is not so for the Malleus since they have to watch everybody, this ties into the fact that the Malleus uses this to intimidate other Ordos, making them the watcher over the watchers. Apparently I'm drawing on old fluff here so if anyone finds anything to dispute that let me know.

It was so originally, some people say it has changed, there is no hard evidence to dispute it, yet there are superficial, common sense information to show the Ordo Malleus are top dog, so let the rebuttals roll in.