[sinistersp]

about the bike and heavy weapons:

as this is a rules question that i might encounter regularly, i went ahead and called the GW customer service which also answers questions on rules.

He simply stated that the rules say that a rider can move and shoot heavy weapons, there is no rule anywhere that states otherwise. he says to 'read what the rule says, not what it doesnt say'

so for those of you who dont beleive me or disagree, i supposed that you should also call the customer service and speak with them.

 

[$ick]

You know I think he can move and fire,

"Riders on bikes (including jetbikes)...are capable of moving and freely fireing heavy weapons." - Pg 29

I think the most important word in that phrase is ON.

Hey, i'm not gona argue with this, I'm jus gona go convert me an autarch on a bike.

 

[Grotstompa]

Well for all of us players who have played through several versions of the rules, like Cheredenine and I, the RAW seem like an oversight and a departure from GW's previously expressed interpretation and INTENT. So, this very much seems like a loophole, as it were.

Nevertheless, I'd have to say, the RAW have me there. It ain't fluffy, but it ain't against the rules, either.

An autaurch who takes both a ML (2 handed weapon) and a JB as wargear pretty much has his hands full using one or the other, IMO. Unless he mounts it on the JB in place of a shuriken cannon, for instance. Now when a bike is taken as wargear, upgrading the bike isn't possible rules-wise, but I could still envision a "special snazzy jetbike" just for the autarch that has the ML on it, while the Autarch has his hands free to steer or whatever. SO that kind of gets around the fluff problem a little.

Still, I think the intent of the rule is for Vypers and Attack bikes that have a dedicated second rider and a vehicle mounted heavy weapon to be able to fire on the move--NOT for a missile-launcher bearing rider on a 1-man bike to be able to fire on the move while driving the bike at the same time. That's just silly. But the rules are just too fuzy to disallow it.

 

[stjohn70]

I agree Grotstompa. In past editions there was a distinct difference.

That said, I'm all for the new way - I thoroughly disliked the old. Yes, it is fluffy for riders to have to pay attention and not fall off their bikes. That said, by having a distinction between the rider and the bike, there was an imbalance between differing armies. Regular Space Marine Bikes' upgrade weapons were carried by the biker and so suffered. Chaos Space Marine Bikes' upgrade weapons were on the bike and got the full advantage of such.

I think this merely removes a weird level of having to distinguish what parts belong to whom... on the same model - one that cannot be seperated for any reason.

 

[Supraboytt]

How the heck do marines get leadership 10?

And there was no way your 2 man marines squad could have ld 10 too, because they were less than 50%.

 

[MffnMn]

How the heck do marines get leadership 10?

And there was no way your 2 man marines squad could have ld 10 too, because they were less than 50%.

They get 10 ld from the Master Commander, but they would have lost one for being under 50%.

 

[Shiz_Vaerth]

Everyone speaks of the difficulty of shooting while riding and saying that you shouldn't be able to move and fire without losing concentration on your bike. I do not need to remind you, but the eldar are not imperial guard. The picture on p.54 on my maccrage rulebook shows an eldar rider wielding an axe. Past depictions of jetbikers have shown some wielding pistols in one hand, Shining spears carry great Laser lances and fire them off at close range while flying at breakneck speeds through difficult terrain, performing complex high-speed aerial manouvres with a single gesture, I have seen farseers with weapons in both hands piloting bikes by psychic control alone. And yet it is still doubted that an Autarch, who has practiced his art for decades, if not centuries, can pilot his bike with one hand and fire a heavy weapon with the other. Disputing rules is O.K, but when someone says that Eldar performing a feat that a human could not seems unlikely, there I draw the line. Read the top of my sig.

 

[DarkKnight]

its good to see that termi armor works. Also nice to see the Imperium give the eldar a good kick in the pants

 

[TwoHats]

Um.. Can a Jetbike rider even use 2-handed weapons?

 

[Veahirin]

I just want to sy that I think it is funny that we Eldar can do it (or any biker for that matter) but hey, I called rulez Boyz as well and they agreed with being able to do it. He said that essentially imagine that he has an upgraded bike with a ML included in the armament and a button to shoot on his handle bars. He is the Autarch after all and having an upgraded jetbike isn't too far fetched.

Also, I felt a little happy when the termies armour actually worked, all too often they get worked. It was good to see them live through all that fire (as my other army is Blood Angels) I still miss 2nd edition Termie Armour (3+ on 2D6)

 

[Skarsgard]

Termies worked and against Eldar of all things.

Not too bad.

I have not really used termies that often since second Ed, when four guardsmen with lasguns charge you and kill 3 termies it just ruins your day. ;?

 

[RecklessFable]

Here's the deal with Bikes. They are Wargear with special rules. They are no longer actual vehicles like they were in 2nd edition. Back in second edition, you could shoot a bike, or shoot a rider. They were seperate. The bike would even keep going and crash if the rider died.

But this is 4th edition. The INTENT of 4th edition is not statistical and mechanical realism. The intent is streamlined battles where you skim over some details to keep gameplay moving.

Bikes, Jetpacks and Terminator Armor are all essentially the same concept. They modify the abilities of the basic model for whom you have bought them.

It is clearer when you look at the Space Marine Attack Bike. This is a model with 2 wounds, not a bike with a driver and gunner, even though they call them "2 space marine crew". Putting one wound on an attack bike does not kill the gunner. Similarly, a railgun will inflict instant death on both "riders". No one ever questions whether an attack bike can move and fire its heavy bolter, yet no rule outside the regular bike rules says anything on the matter.

Also, Sammel has a heavy plasma on his bike. But since the model shows it slung under the chin of his jetbike, no one questions his ability to move and fire it.