I don't see what the issue is. Okay so they've got holes in them. The holes aren't constantly bleeding are they? It's just a fact of research that sometimes unusual situation arise when it comes to collecting and analysing data.

As things stand, there are tribes in Africa who regularly bleed their cows and mix the blood with milk as a drink. Cows are fairly large mammals, with a decent blood supply, so taking a cup here and a cup there isn't going to cause the animal any problems.

It's essentially the same with the "holy" cows.

In fact, it is not unheard of (but not frequent) for a person to leave surgery with an open incision. Sometimes it's necessary for the correct healing of the body. I remember seeing a story on TV just recently where a man had a space ,larger than a basketball, in his abdomen that was left open, because the wound had to be cleaned every day. Admittedly it was not your standard situation, his abdomen had become infected with a highly resistant bacteria that had turned his intestines to liquid, and chlorine was the only thing that would kill it; but it's the same principle, the body has incredibly powers of recouperation and adaption.

"That which doesn't kill you only makes you stronger" (or leaves you maimed and unable to function)

 

I've never heard of this and I have to say...that sounds awesome!! Post some pics.

 

Well, I’m familiar with the concept of cannulated cows, which are cows with an artificial opening in their sides leading to the largest of their four stomachs. Originally the cannulas were used to extract samples of the cows’ stomach content for research on livestock nutrition and health care, but now many farmers actually keep cannulated cows to serve as donors of stomach bacteria necessary for proper digestion to sick cows whose own bacteria have been killed by treatment with antibiotics.

Cannulated cows are as healthy as other cows, their cannula being kept free of infection by the naturally occurring micro-organisms in their digestive system, and they seem to suffer no pain or discomfort from the cannula. I have seen a cannulated cow myself with a little window instead of a plug allowing veterinarians to inspect the stomach content without even touching the cow.

As for the procedures you’re performing on your cows, I expect them to be a little more extensive and invasive since you’re making an unnatural opening from the infectious outside to the sterile insides of the cows’ body, as opposed to the cannulated stomach which is already connected to the outside through the GI-tract. Even so, this is no more unusual than an open incision performed on humans, as mentioned by Mpdscott, and it’s certainly safer and more humane than putting the cows repeatedly through anaesthesia, major surgery, and forced healing afterwards. If it’s for research purposes and has passed the inspection of the ethical committees, then I don’t see a problem with it at all.

For Kore, here are some pictures of a cannulated cow:

Interesting stuff, Karantalsis!

~Greph.

 

This is fascinating! Do you think this comes under animal testing? The second picture is a little grim. Do you think they would ever consider using this on other animals or even humans?

A

 

That's one badass hole (I was expecting something on the small side, more fool me).

Any sort of test on animals has to go through so many different checks these days it's near impossible to find an "unjustifiable" experiment.

I don't see a big issue with it...I hadn't even heard of it until this thread.

 

Not working on them myself, just know some people who are I work on microbes personally, pretty red microbes from teh dead sea . Yeah those are very similar in appearence and concept to what I'm talking about greph, some difference, but not enough to warrant a speerate pic or me finding my camera .

Well if someone else who thinks its a bad thing posts this might be more interesteing, but I'm glad to see so many people with what I consider a sensible view of things. The reason I posted in the first place though is cuase I am not too sure waht non scientists think so thanks .

@Commisarleastat other animals, sure if there was a reason to, humans, probably not, but hten medics might come up with a use for it, I woudln't know, not a medic .

 

Like Rork, I have never seen this before either.

Needless to say, If i ever do more spawn for my chaos, it will be based off that second picture there:x haha

But very interesting

 

In short.... EEeeew :x

As long as it doesn't hurt the cow (and she doesn't seem all taht uncomfortable) and I don't ever have to see it again, its fine by me. now I'm going to be sick...

 

Other cool things:

Featherless chickens for hot climates

Glow in the dark mice

Rabbits with glow in the dark livers .

 

So essentially, to do valid research into cows, you have inturn created giant glove puppets..... :w00t:

It seems like an interesting thing to do to livestock, so my question is simple, is there any risk of infection or detrimental damage to the tested animal, or is it completely safe?

:ninja: out

 

There is a risk of infection, obviously witht he initial implantation. After that very little relative to a none holed cow. Alot safer than regular surgery.

 

How did they discover this?

Did someone operate on a cow and forget to sew the poor thing back up?

I'm glad that it doesn't cause the animal any discomfort.. but, it IS rather bizarre.

I can't imagine that not hurting.. although I'm probably wrong.

 

At the University here they have quite a few of them. Mostly they are used as teaching aids as part of the Vet program, although they are also used for resarch as well. They really don't seem to bother the cows at all, I've seen someone with their arm up to the shoulder inside a cow and the cow didn't seem to even notice. Just kept on chewing it's cud. It can be alarming when you first see it being used though.

 

They really don't seem to bother the cows at all, I've seen someone with their arm up to the shoulder inside a cow and the cow didn't seem to even notice. Just kept on chewing it's cud. It can be alarming when you first see it being used though.

Now that is bizzare!. I too would like to know who came up with the idea. Still as long as the cows don't mind.

 

i think it's pretty awful, but how can anyone be surprised by this when you look at the meat industry...


it reminds me of a tv-program we had here some time back: a dutch family went to live with a tribe of africans who had probably never seen a white person.

Anyhoo these africans where real honoured to have the dutch people visiting so the decide to honour the white folk and slaughter a cow!

And then the white people became all squirmish "we can't eat that! i hugged it 10 minutes ago! it's not nice!" but these same people happily go the mcdonalds.

 

I've also heard that this process is done to the cows for other reasons.

Some farmers will put a magnet in their stomach, so that it collects all sorts of metal nastiness that can cause serious harm to the cow and its stomach. The magnet gathers all the rusty iron nails and what not that the cow eats, and gathers it harmlessly.

The farmer then pulls it out, takes all the metal off, and replaces the magnet. Rather ingenious, IMO.

 

Thats quite cool. Having a wierd hole in your side might not be so bad "Ah that curry I had last night didn't agree with me," *pop...Scoop* "job done!"

And think about dieting, you really can have your cake and eat it!

 

Out of interest, what are they investigating? I know you've said they are regularly inspecting the cow's ovaries, but what for. A lot of work tends to be done on ovarian cysts in cows, as these can be a common occurance on a farm and be a cause of apparent infertility. It could be many other things too, since maintaining a good level of fertility in dairy herds is of major importance in modern farming.

 

In all honesty no idea, not my field of research (I work on microbes) and it never came up which project in particularit was for. One of the projects here relates to fertility changes and inclusion of hormones in milk, it might be to do with that one.

 

Though I know nothing of the cows, of which we speak, I do know (as do many of you if you think about it) of people with similar implants on themselves.

For instance: My boss has a port on his chest to allow for constant blood drawing (he has an insane iron count in his blood) which gets used on a monthly basis. Though uncomfortable when being used, he barely notices it anymore. It's about 1" in diameter right smack dab on his chest.

So I guess there's nothing really odd about all of this.

:ninja:

 

You might be interested in knowing that I have put my hand in one of these such cows. I can tell you that it's actually quite pleasant on a cold morning. The trick is to make sure your hand isn't in when they go to reguritate cud- that's when it splashes and it stains.

The cows really aren't in pain. If you do have a concern about animal welfare then please, stop eating chicken. Birds are in a lower 'ethical bracket' than mammals and as such get treated far, far worse. Don't get me started on animal ethics, it's a potential rant-fest.

To answer other questions- a lot of the research is on the stomach contents. Cows are fermenters- they have a big old tank of bacteria (their stomach) that ferments and disgests the grass (animals aren't very good at this- all grass and browse eaters are fermenters of one type or another). The bacteria break the grass down to absorbable components and also use parts to build more bacteria. Most of the protein absorbed by the cow's intestines was originally bacteria! The use of the hole allows ready and prompt sampling of the gut contents, with little disturbance to the animal. A lot of research is being done at the moment into the bacteria, their proportional mixes and benefits to the cow. It's not what the animal is eating that's being tested- we're pretty sure that's grass. Without the hole you'd have to trap the cow in a crush and then stomach tube it (by sticking a pipe down it's throat) which is about as unpleasant as it sounds. Considering you'd possibly want a sample maybe 20 times a day then you can see why the bung/hole operation is better for the animal in the long-run.

The magnet thing is true, too. There is always a danger of metal or barbed-wire off-cuts being slurped up by the animal and the magnet traps it in the tough rumen (big stomach sack) and keeps it from disappearing into the easily damaged intestines. Sadly the farmer won't take it back out and clean it, like has been suggested. It's recovered when the animal is slaughtered (humanely).

I hope this helped!

 

Good lot of info! A tube into the gut down the throat is indeed v. painful (an incident I never want to repeat!)

A