You still get your FnP against those weapons, the rulebook is pretty clear on what denies FnP

 

In the Feel No Pain description it says "Neither can it be used against wounds from AP1 and AP2 weapons, power weapons and >any other wound against which no armour save can be ever be taken< (like wounds from power fists...."

So there is one of two ways you could interpret this rule. You could say "Because daemons do not have an armour save, but have an invulnerable save instead, Feel No Pain is negated by anything that ignores invulnerable saves."

The other way you can look at it is this way (and I generally wait to say this until someone disagrees with the above on grounds that "armor save" is different than "save") "Daemons have no ARMOR save, therefore any wound inflicted against them is 'a wound against which no armor save can ever be taken" Meaning putting the FNP rule on them is redundant. I only whip out this baby if my opponent wants to get technical. Just agree to play the rules as they're written before the game.

 

"Daemons have no ARMOR save, therefore any wound inflicted against them is 'a wound against which no armor save can ever be taken"

Except that armor saves against these wounds can be taken by some other units. It's not a wound "against which no armor save can *ever* be taken" if some units can sometimes take saves against it! Drayken12 has it right.

EDIT: "if someone gets nit picky about the wording of armor save, simply point out that a model with no ARMOR save, can't ever take ARMOR saves, meaning they never benefit from FNP."
The criteria for FNP has nothing to do with whether the *model* can take an armor save. It's whether the *weapon* ever allows armor saves - and in this case, sometimes it does.

 

Unless the weapon is AP2, AP1, or ignores ARMOR saves in CC, FnP is still viable and may be thrown for.

 

Sorry dude, you're ignoring about three quarters of the rule in that reasoning.

 

Thought as much but I just wanted to make sure in case I was missing a trick!

Since the only armour save Daemons ever have is 3+ that part of the argument doesn't really come into it.

Though reading it, would a model with a 3+ save still be able to use FNP against wounds from AP3 weapons? because they don't ignore all armour saves, they just happen to ignore the one of that particular model.

 

An easier way to look at FnP is:

If there is no model in the game that would get an ARMOR save against that attack, then you don't get FnP. Since Terminators get an armor save against an AP3 gun, you get FnP.

 

Drayken doesn't have it completely right - he stated things that ignore armor saves in CC. That's not completely true... it's just that most things that do are CC attacks (PF's, DCCW, etc). There are some things that specifically state they ignore all saves as shooting attacks, though (such as the Daemon's flamer attack). Those ignore FnP.

In this case (psycannon vs. daemons), though, you'd get FnP. Just because they don't have an armor save to ignore doesn't mean that your attack "ignores armor saves". It'd be like trying to say an ork squad with a painboy doesn't get FnP from bolter fire because it ignores their 6+ saves. That's just not how it works.

 

I'm pretty sure the only place i even mentioned close combat was in the direct quote from book.

But i didnt know about the daemon's flamers I'll have to keep that in mind.

 

You'd still get FNP against an AP3 gun regardless of the model's own armor. 'no save can ever be taken' means what it says. No save ever, by anyone. Adding 'by the model currently in question' is not what the rule says.

They didn't nerf FNP quite *that* badly

 

That was what I thought to be honest, the rare use of the word "ever" in the rules is pretty telling as GW tend to avoid being definitive wherever possible.

 

It is the weapon that negates FNP. It has nothing to do with the armour save or lack of save of the unit with the FNP special rule.

In effect some weapons are so powerful they negate FNP.