Yes, you can combine power swords with pistols to gain an extra attack and retain some shooting ability.

Lightning claws only gain the attack when a second claw is taken. Doing this can get expensive and usually replaces ranged weapons.

 

This would be the reason right here. If you decide to take a model with a ranged weapon such as a combi-weapon or something like that, as opposed to a pistol, the you should feel free to take the Lightning Claw as it has no downsides; however, if the model in question is armed with a pistol, wielding a Power Weapon will confer the bonus attack, while the Lightning Claw will not. So it becomes a situation where you're comparing an extra attack, or rerolls to wound; both have their merits.

 

Yuppers. I have both in my army, depending whter or not you are looking for a support unit or a hard hitting close combat god depends on what i take. There's not much use for taking just one lightning claw, in most cases a power weapon is the way to go. But a lightning claw isn't a bad choice, and i've ever considered putting one on my bike sergeant. Really it's down to preferance and the current wargear that the given model is already using.

 

Adding digiweapons to a power sword guy can give you the best of both worlds. You keep the extra attack for a bolt pistol and also get to reroll a (single) failed wound.

 

Theres also the problem that one LC on a model just looks weird........imo if you are going to take a LC take them in pairs.

 

If you take a LC, you may as well include your bolter or pick up a combi-weapon to make the most of it. With re-rolling to wound, LCs end up performing about as well as power weapons if not better.

vs. MEQs
LC charging = 3 attacks x 1/2 (4+ to hit) = 1.5 hits x 3/4 (4+ to wound w/ re-roll) = 1.125 dead
PW charging = 4 attacks x 1/2 (4+ to hit) = 2 hits x 1/2 (4+ to wound) = 1 dead

vs. GEQ
LC charging = 3 attacks x 2/3 (3+ to hit) = 2 hits x 8/9 (3+ to wound w/ re-roll) = 1.778 dead
PW charging = 4 attacks x 2/3 (3+ to hit) = 2.667 hits x 2/3 (3+ to wound) = 1.778 dead

vs. Carnifex (T6)
LC charging = 3 attacks x 2/3 (3+ to hit) = 2 hits x 11/36 (6+ to wound w/ re-roll) = .611 wounds
PW charging = 4 attacks x 2/3 (3+ to hit) = 2.667 hits x 1/6 (6+ to wound) = .444 wounds

Oh dear, it appears the LC performs better against MEQs and MCs and the same against GEQs. So, based on this, a LC wins out as it will do better against nearly everything. PWs would do better against grots, but that's about it.

 

If you take a LC, you may as well include your bolter or pick up a combi-weapon to make the most of it. With re-rolling to wound, LCs end up performing about as well as power weapons if not better.

...

Oh dear, it appears the LC performs better against MEQs and MCs and the same against GEQs. So, based on this, a LC wins out as it will do better against nearly everything. PWs would do better against grots, but that's about it.

Keep in mind that on the turn you charge, you can still fire your pistol. Unless you're taking a combi-melta, you can't fire the turn you charge. So if you take a bolter w/ your Lightning claw, you will do less kills on the turn you charge.

 

Right, so either keep the pistol to shoot and charge, stick with the bolter if you want to shoot and take a charge, or use a combi-weapon.

 

I like lightning claws overall better than power swords, only my line officers take power swords (if I can't afford a fist) but in my command squads everyone has a flamer and a lightning claw w/1 guy with a fist. That makes for a good troops killing unit.

And I kinda like the look of a singe claw actually, although I plan on converting a bunch of guys to have a storm shield and a lightning claw with built in flamer although in game I'd probably rarely use a storm shield.

Also if I don't have the points for a fist for my sternguard I give him a lightning claw as that way I can keep the bolter without losing effectiveness.

 

I'd S8 any day.

But, as for Power Weapons VS Lightning Claws, it's up to personal preference. As ==Me== already did the math hammer, the difference against MEQ and GEQ in terms of effectiveness is almost negligible. Against the 'fex the Claw has an obvious advantage, but then again, what the hell is a 'fex doing in close combat with your Captain?

Thus, go for what you think looks good. They're both the same price as you mentioned, with the Lightning claw only slightly winning out.

In terms of practicality, the only problem is getting your hands on a Power Claw. Considering that the captain box already comes with one, it's all up to you.

That said, I'd still take S8 anyday. Two powerfists for the win.

Well, that's my two kidneys.

Love, Sayomi Akimoto

 

With them costing the same points the claw is overall a better choice, the question is should you take a second claw, plasma pistol, bolt pistol, bolter, or combi weapon.

 

I dont know why no one has mentioned the storm bolter. I've got a captain with a LC, storm bolter and an AGL (testing it). the AGL gives the captain a bit of light tank busting or crowd control and he still gets to shoot and charge.

 

When I started playing the game the rules on Lightning Claws were really strict. I don't have my 3rd edition codex on me, but if memory serves me correctly only Terminators, back then, could use them so I never really liked them for sergeants, chapter masters, or captains. Needless to say in my days of conversions I've made hundreds of custom weapons ranging from Custodian Bolter-Glaives, Pudaos, Chainspears, Scythes, Tridents, all kinds of Axes, Spears, combi-weapons of all varieties, and a lot more I can't think of right now. Anyway, all of them ended up being power weapons; and right now I'm working on a method to mass produce katanas from scratch, so needless to say I've always been a power weapon lover.

 

...and right now I'm working on a method to mass produce katanas from scratch...

And how is that coming along? Any samples?

 

I like having a lightning claw on my Sternguard Sergeant. it's 10 point cheaper than the power fist and, since Kantor is running with them, I have a power fist available to the team with a better WS. A power sword for that guy wouldn't help, since having a Sternguard Sergeant armed with anything but a bolter or combi-weapon seems like a waste of points.

 

I have always been partial to power swords, but as for which is better I don't know as there is many factors to consider.

 

Not many factors. They cost the same and the LC is superior against anything except T2 and T1. You can still have pistols or trade up for bolters or combi-weapons since you won't get the extra attack anyway. LCs are superior, end of.

 

Lightning Claws look cooler.
And the math hammer above proves it.

Power weapons are good in smaller battles to save points.
And lightning claws are harder to physically get.

 

For sergeants power swords because the can get you an extra attack when combined with a pistol and are cheaper than a lightning claw. However for a captain, lightning claws because he is just worth it.

 

My Chapter Master rolls with a Lightning Claw and a Stormbolter.

 

I think lightning claws are the best way to go in most cases. For a start the look better, and are more effective in most situations.

 

I feel the need to point out you can take a combi weapon on some entries, without replacing a weapon to do so. So you can have a pair of lightning claws, and a combi-melta at the same time.
It's given away by "you may take" as compared to "you replace"

E.G. Some dark angels characters. (Don't have standard marine dex on me, but I've heard it's the same there) You do need to do quite a hard conversion though.

True for Dark Angels but vanilla marines cannot take the four weapons that DA characters (you can get two LCs, a Plasma Pistol, and a Combi-weapons).

General rule- Needing 4's sucks regardless

I'd rather lose an attack for an almost gauranteed wound than get an extra attack that's only 50/50. If you're using LCs, just go for the pair, you aren't missing anything epic by not having a SM commander shoot. And if you're really set on some kinda gun, just go for the Aux grenade launcher.

General statement though, you'll only rarely beat a character with a power fist with a PW or LC, you need to get three or more wounds through an invul save and he only needs 1, personally, I say ditch em both and go for something that also pounds Montrous Creatures and Vehicles.

 

for the Aux grenade launcher.

General statement though, you'll only rarely beat a character with a power fist with a PW or LC, you need to get three or more wounds through an invul save and he only needs 1, personally, I say ditch em both and go for something that also pounds Montrous Creatures and Vehicles.

Yep, totaly see your point. Howevery come up against something like a carnifex and it'll attack before you!

 

Lighting claws all the way for me, as assult squads with a pair of lighting claws are the staple of my army. (i only ever use them in pairs because in every other dex the first cost 25pts and the second cost only 5pts, and i really don't feel like ripping apart my painted marines) i'm very happy with my claws as i've ripped apart entire korne, nid, and ork armies in CC with the things.

 

If your commander is fighting a fex he's needing 6's unless he's packing a relic blade so going first isn't that helpful, you just pray he can't wound you or you pass your saves

 

I should mention that I did wound a Hive Tyrant thanks to the LC reroll.


Of course then my techmarine's 2 Servo-Arm attacks ripped it to shreds but...

 

If you have a pair do you get to re-roll both fail to wounds?

 

You get to re-roll ALL fail to wounds with either one or two Lightning Claws...

For example, if you give two LC's to a captain who gets 3 attacks base, he will get a 4th attack for a second close combat weapon and a 5th attack when he charges. He can re-roll all 5 misses. With only one LC, he gets 4 attacks on the charge and he can re-roll all 4 of those if he misses with all of them.

 

Yes, you get to reroll and you also get the +1 Attack for 2 CC weapons