The people on this message board do not take kindly to being insulted, for something that you clearly have no clue to what the point of the discussion was. We are not talking about this as in the 'real world', we are talking as in '40K world', and what would eventually happen. We KNOW that these things would not happen, we know that races will not be destroyed in their numbers, we are discussing this hypothetically.

Now. Think about that for a while and give a proper answer.

Sorry for the rant but this has really p***** me off, every fluff discussion we have someone says something like this and it has got to stop.

 

@Grand Master Seth:
Duh! Of course GW won't actually end 40K!

We're just discussing who could win, based on the "knowledge" we currently have. So iff off and let us have the discussion!

 

Well i know what you guys mean but my last post still stands cause some people in my opinion take this too serious but again its my opinion.

Also putting all the dumb gods asside some poeple are underestimating the Chaos marines. Look at all there champions, characters and well all there mutants and psychics (Ahriman). They in the games and in Fluff terms are extremely powerful also when people say abaddon could have taken the galaxy 12 times, they are right, he could have. but as other fluff says he is supposedly waiting for something or is on a mission of some sort.

And all this is comeing from someone who loves playing as Loyal marines and imperial guard. But of course in some way in the end the Emperor and all loyal too him will conquer all for they have the ability to unite all men under the emperor and also they have the Will and cause that is more pure then that of the other races so in the end i believe that good will triump over the evil in the galaxy.

LOL NOW IM REALLY GONNA GET FLAMED OVER MY LAST POST.

 

IMHO, the Eldar are being underestimated.

Sure, Eldrad's soul was dragged screaming into Slannesh's maw. I have a feeling, however, that the Laughing God will choose to intervene and snatch Eldrad's soul away (as he does every once in a while, when he can get away with it), causing him to be reborn in a new fresh body that doesn't want to turn into crystal, with greatly enhanced psychic powers who can now pierce the darkness surrounding the future as was mentioned in the EOT fluff.

Or at least I hope so, 'cause he was too good a character to lose like that!

But even without Ulthran, the Eldar have incredible potential. While they are few in numbers, their ability to manipulate the future allows them to play off every other race against each other. Tyranids taking over the galaxy? Murder a couple Ork warlords who are making things difficult, "accidentially" show Orks how to travel through warp gates with their space hulks, and watch as the supermassive Waaaah! and 'nids annihilate one another. The Emperor was warned about Horus's treachery; he just choose to ignore that warning. A suitably galaxy-shattering event could easily swing things any race's way.

Also, what with the recapturing of Altansar and the Crone Worlds, who knows how many ungodly powerful weapons from before the Fall could spring up. Aklaianor (sp?), anybody? Perhaps after being reincarnated Eldrad will find Anaris on Belial IV and take it up? Maybe new information will be released from the Black Library, showing them the True Path. And in any event the Eldar are creating with the trillions of dead Eldar souls on the Infinity Circuits a new god, Ynnead, strong enough to contend with the Chaos parenthon and destroy Slannesh. The nids can't create gods to fight for them

And if nothing else, they can always just hide on their Craftworlds in the dead of space forever. It's not winning, exactly, but better than extinction.

And if the entire Eldar people banded together and adapted a Strike Force-style strategy, they could conceivably determine the winner of every war for a damn long time (as numbers hold out), appearing at precisely the right place and time, every time, to slaughter the enemy. They may be only a drop in the ocean, but if that drop hits the scale just right... and has the power to create gods, foresee the future, and annihilate worlds...

 

Originally posted by Grand Master Seth@Mar 18 2004, 15:03
When do you people realise that no one will win if GW wants to make money. If there is one ruler left then this game will suck and no one will play it. Also when will you guys and girls realise that its just some random guy making all the fluff up and that its just a way to make a shitload of money.


LOL i completely understand the arguement i just think some people take it too seriously.

people still read fanatsy books, and thats just one person making it up... its about how imaginative and interesting they make the game that will make people flock to it.

story telling has gone on for thousands of years...

 

The Kroot will win. The kroot have the greatest advantage in their adaptability. Those who say the orks will win due to numbers? Eventually if enough kroot eat enough orks they'll start reproducing by spores as well. Eat enough eldar and become immortal and psychic. Eat enough Tau (yes tau) and make up for their lack of creativity. Eat enough space marines and become super strong and tough. Eat enough nids and.... well ewwwe that all I have to say.

 

Yes I suppose thats true... if the kroots can eat people before they get shot or eaten by their "food". Tyranids also mutate and evolve to when DNA is consumed and whatever the norm queen and hive mind decides just gets created.

 

Arr, but the Kr00t have to be selective in what they eat, otherwise they'll reach an evolutionary dead end. They can't just go about eating things willy-nilly.

 

When it comes down to it, I believe the Tyranids will be the total conquerors of the universe.

This is because the Necrons once exsisted before the time of eldars, and once ruled all. Eventually the Tyranids came and began wreaking havoc, being too limitless in power to be crushed by the Necrons... so the Necrons went into hibernation, building troops for untold amounts of years across the galaxy (I believe this is mentioned in the Necron codex.. the tie between both races are close). Now consider the amount of Necrons hiding within the galaxy after millions of years of building and expanding, all without losing numbers to constant fighting with other races or amonst themselves... at one given time they will all throw back their cover and cripple the Universe, nearly conquering everything. This will cause all races in the 40k universe to be weakened by the huge scale or warfare, and this will be when the Tyranids will return and consume all... for the Tyranids have conqured hundreds of galaxies, and have expanded past any numbers one can even consider, the 'nids are limitless and share one goal to which they do not swerve... for one Imperial Guardsman there are ten-thousand gaunts, a hundred carnifex's, and a million spore mines.

 

Originally posted by 333@Mar 21 2004, 08:46
The Kroot will win. The kroot have the greatest advantage in their adaptability. Eat enough nids and.... well ewwwe that all I have to say.

Eat enough 'Nids, and they become susceptible to the Hive Mind... At which point they cease to be Kroot, becoming just another type of cell in the greater Tyranid body instead. :lol:

 

right this is how i see it:
Eldar: No way, they are a dying race, there time is over.
Dark Eldar: even more dead than Eldar
Imperium: these guys are always defenciv, they cant kill chaos, cos they cant go into the Eye Of Terror. They cant kill Nids cos they cant go out of their galaxy, etc...
Orks: too stuipid outside of war and they cant ally
Tau: hmm, tricky, they havent been around long enough to really say if they have a fighting chance. Give them a few thousand more years of isolation, and they will win.
Kroot: some people think those green slippery skinned monkey boys are gonna win? nah
Necron: interesting, but i doubt it. In the end, there wont be enough necrons left to conquer the galaxy
Tyranids: who else? sure they are taking there time, but they arent in a hurry... in about 380 years, they have eaten quite a large chunk of the eastern imperium. i vote for them

 

Out of all honesty, i think the nids will win. There's just so many of them, probably even more then the imperium and chaos put together and they're controlled by the hive mind making them smart and ferocious fighters. U never know though, the emporer himself could somehow return to battle in a gigantic version of a dreadnought or somethin like that or the chaos could attack all together in single areas causing major havoc.

 

I do not want to sound like a ***** but lets get some NEW reasons for why a certain race will win, I think I feel like I have read "There are more Tyranids than anyone else so they will win" a hundred times.

 

The reason there are so many posts saying nids will win is because they will :lol: unless all the races unit theres no way the nids are going down! because the nids have no one to ally with themsleves, not that they need it

 

Kroot choose what genetic traits they wish to absorb, so they can simply ignore the hive mind part of the tyranid DNA.

 

Originally posted by slicer@Mar 22 2004, 04:43
The reason there are so many posts saying nids will win is because they will :lol: unless all the races unit theres no way the nids are going down! because the nids have no one to ally with themsleves, not that they need it

yeah I understand that a lot of people think that but c'mon, if you are going to list a reason why you think Tyranids (or Imperium, or Orks, or whoever) don't list "there are more of them" because everyone already understands that there are a lot of (put quickly multiplying alien here). And for that matter, any other argument that is re-hashed many times over.

 

Originally posted by Kiirar@Mar 22 2004, 11:41
Kroot choose what genetic traits they wish to absorb, so they can simply ignore the hive mind part of the tyranid DNA.

Oh yes, forgot that... If a Shaper is present, all they need to do is avoid eating the brains of a Tyranid creature. Kroot with ScyTal or RenClw won't be too handy with rifles! Though I suppose the Tau would requisition a few regiments anyway.

Of course, assuming that Tyranids are edible in the first place. Not all of them have acid blood, but considering that most of the larger ones have phage cells in their blood which can overhelm even the poison resistance of space marines, I wouldn't give the Kroot much chances of surviving a Tyranid feast...

 

yeah I understand that a lot of people think that but c'mon, if you are going to list a reason why you think Tyranids (or Imperium, or Orks, or whoever) don't list "there are more of them" because everyone already understands that there are a lot of (put quickly multiplying alien here). And for that matter, any other argument that is re-hashed many times over.

Very true and in response I will list why I believe the tyranids will, eventually, defeat the imperium, Im not saying this will be an easy battle at all just eventually the tyranids are the strongest threat to the galaxy!

1. The tyranids come from another distant galaxy, many billions of lightyears away from the 40k Galaxy, to travel this amazing distance it is assumed that the tyranids have already consumed at least 1 other galaxy of its resources to make such a unimaginable distance.

2. Theres loads of them! I know its been said many many many times but its true. We simply dont know how many tyranids there are and the way in which they are just pumped out of the hive ship is outstanding. 1 gaunt dies 5 more are spawned. When a tyranid fleet enters a system the warp goes all... dark and weird (weird... er) the amount of creatures that can produce such massive affect on the warp must be... numberless!

3. Adaptability, like kroot tyranids obtain what they desire from fallen enemies by consuming their DNA. The variety in the tyranids is also massive, gigantic bio titans and meaningless mindless rippers all created by the hive to serve it purpose. Tyranids can react to almost any situation with the diversity of its choices.

4. Tyranids have only been around in the 40k galaxy for 250 years to 300 years (I think) for such a new race they are producing quite a stir! they have already torn the eastern fringe apart with Hive Fleets and another fleet has circo navigated the galaxy itself to eat away at it from within. Splinter fleets, not as massive as the Hive fleets now apear without warning at relatively undefended worlds ravaging all life forms and then disappearing again. The supreme might of the ultramarines was almost destroyed by the tyranid hive fleets, on their home planet!

5. Genestealer infiltration, one of the most effective ways of discovering if planets are easily consumable and causing alot of chaos and destruction before the seeding swarms arrive.

6. Spores. There are many spores available to the tyranids, some alter climates, some cause unusual plant growth others deploy tyranids. These spores create the ultimate enviroment for the tyranids.

7. Tyranid nature. Tyranids dont have to defend worlds, whilst other races spend millions of resources defending worlds from other races, the tyranids simply land consume and move on.

I think thats it for the moment.... if I think of any others I'll post 'em. Sorry if these are just repeats from me or others but these are why I believe the tyranids will win.

Thanks!

 

Originally posted by slicer@Mar 24 2004, 16:09
The supreme might of the ultramarines was almost destroyed by the tyranid hive fleets, on their home planet!

Don't forget the Craftworld Iyanden... They'd be making more little Zoanthropes with that DNA, if not for Admiral Yriel's pirate fleet.

 

SQUATS! (Sorry, I had to say that...)

Well, here are my theories:
The 'nid Hive Fleets are not scouting fleets (the genestealers were the scouts) they're all the bugs have left. (I hope, anyways...)

The Orks are incapable of real civilization (remember Gorkamorka? Remember that ship they were trying to build? The debate over whether or not they're the most numerous misses the point. Organization, not numerical strength, is the issue.

The Daisy Eaters (and the Dark Daisy Eaters) are doomed by their own avarice. (Morality play)

Necrons are too few. Let's assume that a downed Necron has a 50% chance of getting up (ignoring for the moment close combat). That means that 50% don't get up. If a war band loses 25% of their number per battle, 50% of those (12.5%) would be permanently lost. This is a massive mortality rate, given the apparent impossibility of reproduction. The C'Tan are another matter entirely, but the Necrons are doomed in the long term.

Chaos is like Bellock in the first Indiana Jones movie (a shadowy reflection of you). They can't exist without their worshipers. (Maybe someone should make a flash animation of a PBS-style Chaos fund raising drive. Have a Berserker of Khorne saying "We want to pile high the skulls of our enemies, but we need your support. Won't you contribute your soul now?") The Orks don't worship chaos powers (Stormboyz of Khorne not withstanding), so no help there. Chaos could win of course, but, except for Khorne, they have nothing to gain by killing all humanity. Furthermore, the Imperium-Chaos conflict is the core meta-narrative of the whole 40k game (many other people have pointed out the biblical sources of this, Lucifer as Horus, the Emperor as God, the Horus Heresy as the fall of Lucifer, etc...)

Tau, I don't know much about, no idea. They really seem to be Eldar version 2.0 to me, but what do I know?

In the end, it comes down to the Imperium versus Chaos. The forces of Chaos are many and skilled, but the forces of the Imperium are unimaginably vast.

My final prediction: the Imperium and Chaos in a more or less permanent stalemate.

 

No no no no no, your wrong about necrons when a necron fails its WBB roll it isnt irrepairable (sorry about spelling) it just means the necron cant repair itself. When the necrons phase out every atom that made up the necron is teleported back to the tomb where a tomb spyder will repair the necron that couldnt repair itself, at least thats what I thought happened.... also the necrons are "recruiting" new members the pariahs are human psychics or something that have joined the ranks of necrotyr, correct me if Im wrong my knowledge on the necrons is a bit hazey.

 

The Pariahs are humans with the pariah gene. Something that makes them have no soul. The ones that the Culexus temple didn't pick up in time, I think.

 

but there are more humans than orks in the big book and i quote

in numbers rivaling that of humanity these savage creatures know only war

note rivaling not surpassing and with the possible reincarnaition of the emp who is possible the 5th chaos god or the god of order the humans will probebly win with the evolution thing and so on

 

Originally posted by The Arklite@Mar 28 2004, 13:46
but there are more humans than orks in the big book and i quote
note rivaling not surpassing

Of course, one should bear in mind that a basic Ork is far more capable in combat than a basic human... Also, not every Imperial citizen is a soldier, whereas due to the nature of Ork "society", every Ork is trained in some form of combat.