I will take a crack at this.

1) Unpainted Armies

They have to be primed. Painted is better but have to be primed.

2) Rules Lawyering

Does not really happen. We are all still learning the rules. If something comes up we discuss it and then make a ruling.

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance

So far it has not happened.

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there.

Has not happened we take time to look over are lists and each others.

5) How strict are your tourneys?

How do you defind strict?

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies.

Not aloud at all. They have to fix it. If not they do not play.

 

1) Unpainted Armies

Doesn't happen. The person who runs our campaigns is rather anal about this. Everything is painted and based

2) Rules Lawyering

Not an issue. Same person makes a judgement if two people can't work it out. The issue is discussed later to determine a standing rule for that situation.

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance

It's pointed out to the offending party and if it happens again, he gets a stern warning. Repeat offenders are banned. Unfortunately it has happened.

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"

It's pointed out to the offending party and the equipment isn't available in the current game. If it happens again, he gets a stern warning. Repeat offenders are banned. Unfortunately it has also happened.

5) How strict are your tourneys?

N/A

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies.

Lists are turned in to the campaign moderator. If he sees anything illegal, the list MUST be corrected.

 

Ours isn't a club, so much as a bunch of mates playing a series of regular campaigns (although with 8 regular players we almost qualify as a "free" club)

1) Unpainted Armies

No one has a problem with this, we're also really easy on proxying armies in order to allow players to try stuff out prior to purchasing something new. We encourage each other to paint, but it's not insisted upon.

2) Rules Lawyering

We live by the roll of a d6 of fate (well, when the campaign GM doesn't have an opinion on the subject, but that's usually on houserules he wrote for the map part of the campaign) Everyone is happy to abide by d6 decisions in case of rules queries. Myself and one other player are probably the biggest "rules lawyers", but we are fairly impartial with it, ie we remember to pick up other people, each other and ourselves when a point of rules could have an influence on the outcome of the battle, even if it's not in our own favour.

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance

Thankfully we have no cheats. Errors in ignorance do happen, and if the error doesn't affect the game being run at that time, it's allowed to stand for that battle. Of course, the error is then corrected for any subsequent games

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"

No-one is guilty of that. Forgetting that they have bought equipment that would help them on the other hand, is an all too common mistake :blush:

5) How strict are your tourneys?

We're a pretty easy-going bunch. We make the set-up fair to all parties, and then may the best man win.

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies.

We only have one player who regularly has lists which don't quite match the points totals for the game. This doesn't seem to be a deliberate "cheat", so much as the occasional maths error, combined with confusion between which list he's actually running at any given time.

That said, I've made mistakes in list construction (put a regular list together with insufficient comp. troops choices, thinking that I was using the combat patrol rules, although the list was 1000pts. As I won the game (and neither of us noticed the flaw until after I'd decimated his marines with my IG), we agreed that the victory didn't count towards any campaign outcome, and I reworte the list ready for the next game.

@ silvermane, I hope you're going to tell us about your club too...

 

My local GW....

1) This is not allowed. We aren't nazis about it (like once or twice we let it slide) but it has to be be painted to some degree.

2) We don't generally rules lawyer, there are a few who are a bit more strict about things (where others aren't a walking rulebook) but mostly it comes down to the most widely used interpretation of any rule in question.

Failing that, roll for it.

3) Ignorance is forgiven, cheating is not.

4) It probably happens, but i've yet to notice it. I suspect that anyone caught would soon find themselves with noone to play.

5) Fairly simple tourneys, mostly for fun.

6) Illegal lists in friendlies are usually spotted a mile away must us vets and most that are illegal are because said player is new to the game.

Again, anyone willingly cheating will soon become known.

All in all nothing out of the ordinary.

 

People who are anal about painted armies really piss me off. How does this promote a friendly environment to play in? My club doesn't even require that the model is put together (i've seen SSCs in bits and even a palanquin without a slann on it before!)

As long as people play by the rules and have a good time everyone is happy. We have a couple of rules lawyers at our club, but they play 40K when the main contingent play WHFB, so I'm fortunate enough not to come across them

Ciao

Stonehambey

 

i agree totally. i can understand the appeal of having two fully painted armys fighting each other. but thats what the big tournys are for. in my local club there are no rules for painted/unpainted models. being able to acctualy PLAY the game before investing many house of work into painting them is better in my opinion.

we all encourage each other to paint, and because of that a majority of the armys are.

 

Hey All,

As I was watching the earlier thread about 'Letting it Slide' a thought came to me and this question happens to be that very thoughtThe meat of the question is, how strict is your club/workshop when issues arise?

The categories are.

1) Unpainted Armies

you lose points in tourneys, but friendlies are ok.

2) Rules Lawyering

Some can be a pain.

5)[/B] How strict are your tourneys?

Well, depends who organises it. The regular guy is pretty good, but once another guy stood in, he was anal. I finished in second place, finished my games fast, and then said I was leaving because I had to catch a bus to get back to boarding school. The guy said if I wasn't here when everyone else finished, my I would be disqualified. I thought he was joking and he'd just give it to me when I showed up next week as the club is fairly small and I'm a regular there.

Turned out he wasn't joking. Damn arsehole.

 

1. You move, you die.

2. You breathe, you're taking up your opponents oxygen, thus attempting to suffucate them, thus you die.

3. You blink, you die.

4. You have skin, you die.



Anyways, in a real world, we have the usual ones, no rule lawyers, no cheating, but, we accept models, as long as they are put together and about WYSIWYG, just as long as you paid the right points we okay with it.

 

The club (if you could call it that, it is very informal) I play at is pretty easy going in some respects and pretty harsh in other respects.


The categories are.

1) Unpainted Armies

Absolutly fine. Hell proxying models is Ok and borrowing other peoples is encouraged.

2) Rules Lawyering

Depends. If there is a particular rule which you trying to bend slightly it is considered good form to raise it before the game to clarify. We have a lot of house rules to deal with this kind of thing. (To the point where we are now developing a completly new wargame!)

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance


Not really an issue. We all have been playing for ages and we all know each other so cheating to win is kind of pointless and hard to pull off even if we were that way inclined. Ignorance, quite strict, Models may get put back on the table if they were killed when they shouldn't have been.

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"


Never.

5) How strict are your tourneys?

Haven't held any. But they would probably be pretty strict. (if we were going to get round to organising a proper tournament we might as well do it properly)

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies.

Well in friendlies we often don't use points just pick two roughly fair armies and start playing. In a 'challenge' (i.e not friendly :shifty: ) match it is considered very bad form to be even 1pt over

 

I'm probably an odd duck in this category, but here's how I run things.

1) Unpainted Armies

Painted. Period. If you can't do it yourself or don't have the time, I'll do it for you. Until it's done you can use a house army.

Quoted by Stonehambey: People who are anal about painted armies really piss me off. How does this promote a friendly environment to play in?

I'm quite the opposite of opinion in this case. People too lazy to paint, truly, disappoint me. But that's another subject for another time.

And I willingly offer to paint an army up to the best of my abilities for my club members. No charge. I don't expect everyone to be like me, but, if the game is on one of my tables, then the armies are painted. End of subject.

If I'm in another place with different opinions, then I'm fine with it, it can be unpainted/unprimed/unassembled. But not in my place.

2) Rules Lawyering This doesn't happen that often. When it does we all discuss it openly.

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance If we run into an issue, I get the entire group to look at it. That way we can get everyone's opinion, and everyone can see what should happen. The rulebooks are broken out and the rules read aloud. I'll even call the GW trolls on occasion. A simple misunderstanding should embarrass no one. I even do it to myself from time to time so that no one feels like they're the only ones who make mistakes.

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"
I also happen to produce the lists for everyone before games, and I provide detailed unit workup sheets for all. Our Chaos player sometimes forgets equipment or presumes his unit has something (grenades are frequently assumed by many). This isn't a large issue usually, and I make a point of learning units and their abilities, especially when we train for tournaments.

5) How strict are your tourneys? We don't run any. We have to go elsewhere for tournaments.

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies. This varies a lot, depending on campaigns and such. I don't think we've ever encountered too many illegal lists, but, from time to time we let players field whatever they want and just go at it for fun (WYSIWYG is, as always, in full force).

:ninja:
I again state, I'm probably an odd duck in this. Mostly due to the fact that we have 4-6 players max. I make all the terrain, paint (almost) all the armies, and often play with a handicap so that players with less experience can enjoy themselves better (easy wins make for happy people, and I'm just happy painting).

I know I'm fairly rigid on the "painted army" subject. But that's my personal view, and I only enforce it on my home turf and never will I even complain about it in another store/tournament. If someone is playing in a tournament with primed marines, I'll make good comments when I can, and keep focused on the game.

:ninja:

 

1) Unpainted Armies

Our club only has 2 players with well painted armies. Myself & a work colleague. The rest of the players including the club owners, have poorly painted armies or just primed.
Of course I prefer to play against well painted armies, and somewhat expect it. If they have made an effort and its the best they can do (but still hopeless) then I wont say anyhting about it. I even offer advice.
However if its obvious they are just lazy & wanna play the game just for the gaming. Then I sometimes remind people that others, like myself, dont get as much enjoyment out of the game unless it looks nice. I think its common courtesy to atleast do a quick drybrush & ink wash job for the sake of others. Even if you yourself dont care if they are painted or not.

[

B]2) [/B]Rules Lawyering

We correct eachother if we make honest mistakes about rules. No-one goes searching for loopholes or tries to bend the wording of the rules etc.

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance

It happens. They do it. We do it. Its inevitable. Who cares?

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"

We tend to have lists on hand which can be checked. As a rule of thumb, if our army has some equipment of special rule which sounds difficult to believe, we will show the player the list &/or rules.

5) How strict are your tourneys?

It has rules to be conformed too. But we tend to make exception etc along the way.

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies.

It does happen but only by accident. I do it as often as my opponents so no-one gets too upset about it.
Its normally only the owner of the list who cares, because if they won it discredits their victory a bit.

 

Hey All,
1) Unpainted Armies

Not an issue, we could care less. We rib anyone who's army isn't progressing, but if you just got a new squad/army, we could care less if it's all painted

2) Rules Lawyering

I'm one of the main rules guru's at our store. Fact be told, I'm usually THE rules guru. I will point out any errors and show page refs. If it is something like terrain or psychics, I'll describe the rules as they are in the book, and how most people play, and let them decide. If they didn't decide if the building was AT to the outside edge of the base vs the building footprint, not my problem, let them fight it out.

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance

Certain members try from time to time. Usually if someone notices, we'll let them both know and correct the issue. Certain memebers are watched more closely. Pulling a Johnson in our store refers to a Mr Johnson who has a habit of moving front rank, and then putting back rank in front of the 6" movement of the front rank. This along with the average move of 8 inches... These are called when noticed.

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"

I'm sure it happens. I prefer that my opponent have a written list. I don't ask to see it, but as long as he has one, I can ask to see where he has paid for said gear. Some people are more notorius about this, and require more scrutiny.

5) How strict are your tourneys?

We play by the BGB or by the rules agreed before the start. If the tourney is painted armies only, then painted armies only are played. That said, our local store is pretty lax as we'd prefer to game and enjoy than crush out rules.

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies.

always picked apart.

 

1) Unpainted Armies

If it's a casual game it's no problem. All the models I play with are done, but not everyone has the time. Carot, you're a saint for painting other people's armies for free. Wish we had someone like you here.

2) Rules Lawyering

Rules arguments come up a lot, and it really slows down the game and ruins the atmosphere. But once they're over everything is fine.

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance This is usually just corrected and forgiven, no big deal unless someone flies off the handle about it. Although I can't recall anyone doing that.

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"


This is a really significant problem, as it shows that someone took the time to make their list and read the rules but ignored them. This is deeply looked down upon.


5) How strict are your tourneys? We have strict, mid-sized tournaments throughout the year where cheating isn't tolerated in any form and bad painting leaves you out of points.
Our largest tournament (once a year) has in the area of 70 people and things are looked at even more strictly.

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies. No illegal lists in tournaments, but friendly games see tons of them. It's really the differences in the level and quality of tournament/non-tournament players.

 

Hey there, so I play at a GW store, and I'll go down the list to let you know my thoughts on the store I play at.

Hey All,

As I was watching the earlier thread about 'Letting it Slide' a thought came to me and this question happens to be that very thoughtThe meat of the question is, how strict is your club/workshop when issues arise?

The categories are.

1) Unpainted Armies

Not very strict, as long as you show progress on your army, the "painted armies only" rule is lifted, and even then you'll get gentle nudges and warnings rather than "paint your army or else" and I like it that way, painting should be a matter of personal pride in work and play, not mandatory in my mind, its just more rewarding when you get to face a good looking army.

2) Rules Lawyering

As long as its fair and polite nobody has a problem with it, but if something starts to get excessive, they employ the dice rule for rules debates.
I personally don't mind, because if I didn't know something or was playing something wrong, I want to know.

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance

Cheating is not very tolerated, and pretty strict in campain/league/tourney setting, but ignorance, is ignorance and should be forgiven as long as the person is genuinely trying.

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"

A lot of this is ablated by the "bring an army list" rule. You can't cheat like that if you have to account for everything. And, "If it ain't on there, then your guy doesn't have it" rule.

5) How strict are your tourneys?

Fairly, but they are not so competative that the screws are tightened. Its mostly friendly play . Though if something is an important move/shot/ whatever then things get strict.

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies.

Illegal list = loss or DQ. period. Unless oponent waives the right.

Those are the questions, feel free to elaborate on other issues if you so choose. The whole purpose of this is to get this question out of my head.

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to answer!

 

However if its obvious they are just lazy & wanna play the game just for the gaming

Don't you mean lazy or wanna play the game just for gaming? Just because someone doesn't live and breathe GW, should this really be an issue?

As for question 6); most of the people at our club will happily admit if they make a mistake. I don't know anyone there who would willingly make an illegal list. I've lost count of the number of times I've made a mistake in writing WHFB army lists. But it's usually nothing too major and is often not an issue.

To extend on my answer to question 2); I think that rules lawyering can be overdone, for example if someone misses a charge by one billionth of a millimeter then I don't really see the point in forcing a failed charge. I'd sooner let the charge go off. I don't expect people to do the same to me, but my opinion of you will increase tenfold if you do.

Ciao

Stonehambey

 

Just because someone doesn't live and breathe GW, should this really be an issue?

Stonehambey brings up a good point. I don't have much talent for painting, but I do it and get tips from people in order to score well at tournaments.

However I "live and breathe" playing the game, and love the missions, strategy, and pretty much everything about that aspect of it. Is it so bad for someone to play it for the sake of wanting to play?

 

The categories are.

1) Unpainted Armies
-as long as your working towards getting your army done then all is well. However, if your found to be using the same old army unpainted or primed for several weeks in a row you'll probably take some flak on it. However, overall not much is done other than some whining as I prefer to play a painted army but I will not turn down a game if no one playable is around

2) Rules Lawyering
-try not to do it, but it happens. we try to solve everything by conversations, but every now and then you have the people who end up starting arguments. we have our consistent people who solve most issues/interpret rules. i personally try to deter people from just walking up and asking the GW guys

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance
-i don't consider this cheating as long as its not purposeful. if its a person learning a new army we give them a lot of flack even if they are a vetern player. however, if its a repeated error when things have been corrected numerous times then its time to change something or they can leave

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"
-this is why i have a book of army lists and i leave the one i'm using on top. from my opponents i usually request a list, but if its a game for fun ahead of time most people don't care. however if i'm playing someone and they happen to have 4 scrolls when they need them i usually question it as most people don't bring 4 scrolls in games for fun

5) How strict are your tourneys?
-basic rules: army list required, painted/based army required, own dice/rules book/codex/armybook/measuring tape required. rule disputes are solved by the judge who has the final say otherwise dice it off and let the dice gods solve it for it. no complaining afterwards and don't cry in your beer at the end of the night as no one likes that.

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies.
-if someone brings an illegal list i usually request to play again. if during the game i realise my list is illegal/ in error, i apologize immediately inform my opponent and ask how they would like to correct this even if it involves i immediately remove pieces from the game. if i determine my opponents list is in error i bring it to their attention and again ask them how they feel this should be rectified. its a game life goes on at least that's how it should be.
-if someone brings an illegal list to a tournament and its discovered they immediately withdraw even if its by error and their opponents automatically gain a victory.

 

The categories are.

1) Unpainted Armies

2) Rules Lawyering

3) Cheating via Errors/Ignorance

4) Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"

5) How strict are your tourneys?

6) Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies.

1. All but two of our players have at least some models painted, and our group is collectively chipping in to have armies sent off to get professionally painted. We're pretty cool about it, but I personally would like to see everything at least primed.

2. The majority of the group has a pretty good understanding of the rules, and have a set way that we work things out that may be controversial, so rules lawyering isn't that big an issue.

3. Ignorance is more the case, and we are all cool about informing the opponent about it instead of getting all pissy.

4. We all run our lists through the army builder program, and keep them open throughout the game so that we can challenge such claims or whatever. Again, we're all pretty laid back, and I've never really seen cheating as an issue.

5. Only did 1 tourny, and it was pretty laid back I guess.

6. Like in #4. We run our lists through the Army Builder just to make sure it all adds up and such, so we don't really face that issue either.

 

1.) I would LOVE to have a fully painted army, but with not that much time/strength to sit down and paint piece after piece of model this is unlikly to happen. I try my best but I'm constantly starting new armies (I have Eldar, Witch Hunters, Imperial guard and looking into Tau for 40k, Wood Elves for WHFB, I'm starting Blood Bowl, are building an Hive Fleet for BFG and need to paint a couple of minis for our Inq. 28mm) so my motivation isn't really there.

I'm not an army painter really because I am a bit of an perfectionist and my motivation sways when I paint to many models with the same colors.

Our club has no restraints at all. There isn't enough people to force such things here that play WH. I have no issues with it either. Proxying isn't that ok, it depends on what it is. One guy (a serious player at the age of 22-25 I might ad) used plain and simple Spawns of Chaos on larger than regular bases and said tha tthey were Plauge Riders for his Nurgle Daemonic Legion. It would had been ok for me if he had said it BEFORE we started the battle. He ASSUMED that I too understood it. That made me pissed but I didn't really bother.

2.) Most of the people at the club has a good understanding of the rules and we kindly point out if they are wrong in a subject. We also have nothing against newbies and teaching them (well, most of us doesn't). I might ad that I'm quite strict on the rules. They are there for a reason.

3.) Errors is ok, not everyone know everything and especialy not newbies. Ignorrance is stupid and the only boy (13-year-old) who have used it has quit (he had a frickin' D-cannon on his Falcon! He said that it didn't say anywhere that he couldn't!). Can't say that I miss him.

4.) If they don't know if it's ok and so, then we point it out. But ignorrance (like the above example) is not accepted if it happens regularly. Good for us that it doesn't happen that often.

5.) I have organised a tourny once at our gaming club and it went ok. It was just 1000pts and had no restraints for painting and such. Extra advanteges were given to painted armies though.
A campaign I'm planning is using fixed army lists (so no changing units between battles) and we have put a restraint that Chaos armies may not take Greater Deamons in 1000pts-lists. This caused some argues with one guy since he always uses a 'Thirster in his armies, no matter the size. I told him to accept it or don't play, his choice. I also put a rule that the Avatar is ilegal in 1000pts lists as well as Armoured Companies.

6.) Again, if it happens through errors and that he might not now about it (like first-time IGers and need to field two troop choices. Their platoons can be quite confusing!) then we point it out and ask them to correct it. We have not dealed with cheaters yet, which I'm proud of.

 

Here is my stances on these things, I run a school club and have gradually tightened the rules up:

Unpainted Armies:

Used to be at least primed, but people after a few months I had enough of it, so I stepped it up so models have to be mostly complete. With no expections save unusual circumstances like your painting hand/arm is broken or somthing like that.
The most common excuse is 'I don't have time.' really they do as homework isn't too frequent at my school. So I tell them to free up time, eg. Watch less TV and stuff like that.

Rules Lawyering

If it can't be found in the relavant book, then I try to help people narrow it down to the two mostly likley soloutions and do the 4+ roll to see which one is used to help keep games moving. And I call on other people at the club to assist as well.


Cheating via Errors/Ignorance

I am quite forgiving on this and I help people find the rule and quickly give a summary of it and suggest that they should give the book a throuogh re-read too.

Cheating / Adding equipment when it isn't there. Eg, "Oh Night Fight, I'm so glad i brought blacksun filters on all my models!"

I always ensure people have an army list at my school club to prevent cases of 'Oh, he has artificer armour acutally'
I've not really had an real cheaters to deal with but I would deal with them quickly and remind them the game is about good sportsmanship and enjoying yourself.

How strict are your tourneys?

I can't renember the last time I ran a torney at my school club, so I'm not too sure. But when I do, I will ensure that it is well organized and fair.

Illegal lists to varying degrees in a tourney as well as friendlies:

I tend to detect them rapidly and don't allow them to play until they fix it up, but I do help them legalize it though. That tends to sort them.

 

Hence why you just play with friends who dont care as much. I hate guys which are really picky about rules and the likes. If you dont have a legal army like me some times it can come down to the fact that you cant keep forking out the money to make it legal.

I've got a bit of another question how picky are people at you gaming clubs about wargear listed on you army list acctually being modeled onto your minis?

 

1) We generally do not like unpainted armies, so encourage players to paint them. We say a base coast is minimum, but more is always better.

2) We always discuss rules that we are not sure about. We always try to compromise, and look the solution up later.

3) Rarely happens but no one makes a big issue of it.

4) Does happen, because we don't strictly enfore written army lists. We trust players not to cheat.

5) Tourneys/Campaigns are just for fun and not overly competitive.

6) We encourage players to stick to the rules. So far I haven't seen anyone deliberately use an illegal list.

 

My group runs pretty simple. We prefer that you have your army painted, we also prefer you to have the army you claim to be fielding. Half the time this isn't the case. We've got one guy that usually plays with the house armies. That or he proxies most of his unpainted/half-assembled army.

Rules aren't bad. We make sure to check things if we think you're pulling a fast-one. If you make a mistake, we usually let it slide.

Legal lists are a must.

WSIWG is out the window. We frankly don't have the cash to have spare models lying around with special weapons. In WHFB however, shields and over-all weapons matter, same goes for CC weapons in 40k. But honestly, those Blacksun filters get used once in a blue moon, so really, if it's an uncommon weapon, just show me your list.

We ran one tournament, but we like to run big games and short campaigns. These get strict. We like to see you use YOUR army, and we encourage you to have it painted. However, there's always somebody that doesn't do it.

Really we're pretty laid back, just don't be a jerk and we'll play.