I'll say it now.. This thread is going to go really bad really fast.

Relativism isn't pointless, it's a logical response to the pointlessness of moral discussion.

Logically, the only environment in which 'good' is not relative is if there is one supreme power to enforce its definition of 'good' onto everything else, in other words if there's a monotheistic God. There is no such thing in 40k, so there is no absolute 'good', the end. Now prepare for a meaningless cock-fight which will run on for page after page of people saying 'aliens r gud!', 'no, aliens r bad!'.

 

I vote Imperial Guard. They don't have anything to prove; they're simply trying to hold back the monsters and daemons from eating their home planets despite being horribly outmatched (and sometimes badly led).

This thread is going to go really bad really fast...there is no absolute 'good', the end.

I remember that was how it used to be in the Index Astartes days; every faction had reasons for what it did and could make a case for its version of 'good' to be correct. GW seems to be dropping this nowadays for an 'Emperor good, Chaos evil, Xenos kinda iffy' mindset. It especially comes out in the Horus Heresy novels, in which Horus might as well have 'despotic butcher' tattooed on his forehead. Not to mention the horrid, latest Chaos Codex, which describes most Chaos Marine recruits as being ordinary Marines who decided to start killing kittens instead of genestealers. If we use what looks like the official definition of 'good' then the correct answer to the OP is 'Space Marines' and this thread's purpose is over...but what's the fun of that?

 

Orks.

Its simple. they are the most honest, most straight forward race in all of 40k. They dont come to you with lies and promises like Chaos and Eldar. They dont wish to eradicate all life like the Necrons. They dont treat you as worthless fodder and make you believe your serving a higher purpose like the Imperium. They dont treat you as food like the Tyranids. Your not a slave to be tortured for their amusement like the Dark Eldar.

They love to fight. Fighting is why they exist. They share their love with anyone who wants it. What is the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. How many races besides the Orks can honestly they treat others how they want to be treated?

 

I'd have to say the Tau Empire as they're only really looking for friends and peace....and a world not to be devoured by Nids.

 

The Tau are devious scum bags, they offer water in one hand yet hold a knife in the other, (ohhh here we go, its starting).

 

It's starting because you're starting it. No point in veering in that direction.

The heart of the matter is, as Leech stated in the first post, "what is good?" How do you define such a concept? "Evil" is a much easier term to define, especially in the world of Warhammer 40k. Does "good" mean "honest" or "straightforward?" Or does it mean something else, such as purity, agenda, goals, etc.?

I would argue that the Tau Empire is the closest to "good" you can get on such a general basis as "which army?" As a whole, they tend to treat their enemies more fairly, their conquered peoples well, and tend not to prefer going to war if they can avoid it. Are they basically a dictatorship? Yes. Do they give a do-or-die choice to conquered worlds? Sure. But the way they go about it is much more traditionally "good" than any other army in the game.

I feel like armies can be decidedly good, especially on an individual scale; a DIY chapter of Space Marines could be more good than the Tau Empire in general, or an Imperial Guard platoon, or an Eldar Craftworld, etc. but on the most general scale of "what army?" I feel like the Tau Empire would take the cake.

No such thing as a "good" army, only "most good compared to the others."

 

Hmm, this is a tough one. These are the three racs I beleive to be the least evil.

Orks are large brutes that enjoy fighting and killing. However that is how and why they were created. They were created to be the ultimate warrior race, surviving and thriving by fighting. It is all they know and all they enjoy.

Tau are complete dictators and have their unique social order. They lack the freedoms that many developed countries in our world give and that the people are happy to enjoy. They do this for the advancement of their species but many could argue that teir caste system and strict culture is evil because of how different it is to ours.

Tyranids have no individua; thoughts. They are controlled by a greater power that they halp contribute to. They destroy, eat, kill but they do it all for survival.

Overall i'd have to say that Tyranids are the least evil.

The Emperor Protects

 

Overall i'd have to say that Tyranids are the least evil.

It's interesting that alot of people are saying most good is least evil. I'm not sure that's the same thing. Cowards may sometimes lack any kind of evil intent but they can still do alot of harm through inaction.

 

We could all argue morality and good/evil till the grox herds come home, but I think most of us can agree that killing generally equals bad, and that the ideal 'good' circumstance would involve as little wanton bloodshed and genocidal murder as possible. Seeing as the Tau are the only ones interested in allying with anyone other than themselves, that would make them the most 'good' in that way, and perhaps they are good generally. Of course, I like to think of the Tau as having this sort of bright-eyed naivete about fighting their cause, seeing as they're still new to the galaxy of 40k. Their biggest conflicts involve fending off a species that seemed to pick the fight with them first, and a bunch of hungry bugs; no-philosophical-debate defense missions. The big, tough decisions like forcing a person to stay alive for ten-thousand years to protect your species, dedicating your soul to a chaos god to avoid the ravages of a horrific plague, or letting billions die in a deceitful bid to save your own hide haven't fallen into their laps quite as many times as it has with the humans and eldar.

 

I voted Tyranids after reading all the posts, instead of my own space marines. Tyranids are acting on instinct and as far as i know dont fight eachother for philosophical reasons.

 

Imperial Guard. They are just men and women doing their orders, holding back enemies with no real philosophical consideration.

 

So their commanders, officers, Commissars, and other leaders have no philosophical consideration? How far does that chain go until someone has to call the shots, and can you really consider that someone NOT part of the Imperial Guard?

 

Vachkov is correct. The Imperial Guard's job, at every level, is the continued existence (and preferable superiority) of humanity. Some officers may be aiming for political gain, be hereditary royalty or otherwise have a personal agenda, but every one still has a vested interest in humanity's survival and works towards that.

Except Chenkov. I have no idea why the Munitorum, Commissariat and ordinary Valhallans can all tolerate an officer who prides himself on wasting human life.

 

Chenkov does what he does for a reason. He is fighting for the survival of the Imperium. If some must die for the greater good of the Imperium then they will, do the Tau not send their soldiers to fight for the greater good of their people? How are the two so different?

Here's a quote from the IG codex about Chenkov:

Chenkov's ruthless command style continues to win the Imperium many victories and though the cost is high, the price of failure is intolerable.

think about it, if Chenkov lost 10 million guardsmen in the year long Seige of Kotrex, sure the numbers are high but how many more guardsmen were lost? Now what were the strategic benefits of ending the battle that quick?

1) His forces would be able to move on and fight other battles, the remaining force could have gone on and fought a battle on an under defended world nearby, possibly saving billions of Imperial lives that could have been lost.

2) The world would have been functional as an Imperial Planet sooner. This could provde resources, troops, or other such things to the Imperium.

How about on Trenk Raveine? Where men under his command marched across a minefield to clear it for tanks? Sure this cost a number of infantry their lives but would the casulty rate not be lower than fighting a war? If this armoured assault hit home where the enemy thought it was safe would the benefit of ending the war quickly not be greater than the loss of life?

One final example. He uses squads of men to pin down enemy generals while his artillary tke aim. Sure this kills the infantry in the surrounding area but it cuts off your enemys head. It throws their forces into disarray and has the potential to end a war early and save a great number of lives.

Do these all speak of an evil man to you? Do these show how similar the ruthless commander of the Imperial Guard is to a Tau commander?

The Emperor Protects

 

I'd argue heavily against Tyranids being most 'good' simply on the basis of lacking an individual will to 'choose' to be evil; besides, who's to say the hivemind isn't hideously evil? I agree with Leech's above post that simply not doing or choosing evil does not constitute good. If the 'nids had their way, every planet in the galaxy would be a lifeless, barren rock after slaughtering and digesting all other lifeforms; evil means, evil ends, even if not by sentient choice. 'Good' would have to be someone occassionally going out of their way to be charitable or merciful towards others, which the Tau are known to do on a regular basis (of course, not always so pure-intentioned or gently, but it's there nonetheless). If it had to be anyone other than the Tau, it would be the Eldar, seeing as they have the only recorded instance of mercy I know of; one of their leaders, after pounding a human settlement on a maiden world into submission, accepted their surrender and even helped to transport them to a nearby habitable moon.

 

If the only way for you and your entire species to survive was by digesting all organic matter would it be evil? If any other faction had to do this to survive do you beleive they would not do it? Their inability to make a moral decision on right or wrong helps this argument, they do not see anything wrong with what they do, they just kill so that they can live.

Do the Tau kill so that they can survive? If it was either they die or they elimenate another world what do you think they'd choose? Now would their moral choice to do this not make them evil?

When considering this I beleive you must consider the "If I was in their shoes..." question. If you do not you are comparing what they have done, and not why they do it.

Some guy could beat others because he enjoys it. Then another, normally nice guy could lose his wife, kids, house, pets... because of someone else, only to kill him.

Now look at what the two men have done, since murder is worse than assault would the second man be more evil? Or would he be leess evil because although he did commit a worse crime he had a better reason for it than "I enjoy hurting others".

The Emperor Protects

 

I've voted for the tau empire as they are more interested in integrating other races into their empire the killing anything that is not the same species. Sure they do it for their own gain but in the end both party's benefit.

 

I might be a bit biased as I play Tau...

But I voted Tau. They are communist dogs... but they open all their dealings with diplomacy, are not overly xenophobic, and generally open minded... so long as it's in alignment with the Greater Good. They even strategically defend whole races and give sanctuary. Free Traders, their Psychic empire members, and others are all granted asylum. If anything not human pleaded for aid to an imperial planet it would be met with bolter fire. Eldar would consider it's usefulness to plans they might have, then decide to spare it to gain it's trust or kill it to be rid of it.

The Tau are double talking salesmen who incite uprisings to gain easy victories, but as the argument for Chenkov goes above, a little civil unrest to open the door from a bloodless transition of power is better than glassing the planet's settlements from orbit. Their generally generous nature, though often limited to terms, is often shown, and if you read the Imperial Armor campaign fluff you will see Tau often allowing enemies to withdraw. The Tau codex even says they negotiated with the Imperium to allow it to withdraw it's entire crusade from the Damocles Gulf to respond to other enemies elsewhere. The Tau could have tied up that force for months longer and weakened the Imperium by using circumstance to it's greatest effect, but instead accepted the olive branch and stayed true to their word.

Based on my own principles the Tau are the most good and least evil in the 40k universe.

 

Beautifully said. Tau definitely are the good guys.

 

Oh please guys everybody knows the Tau are gonna corrupt eventually ;P
that aside, Tyranids, I dont really see how they are evil, theyr just...hungry.

 

Orks:
"Green is best"


nuff said.

 

The Orks have no morality so they can't be good, their only purpose is to satisfy their desires for combat and plunder. They are bascially hedonists like the Dark Eldar.
The Tau use psychic mind-control to achieve their harmony. Robbing people of free will is immoral and the bulk of their peons aren't acting of their own volition so they can't be moral either.
The Tyranids have no free will so they can't be moral. The Hive mind is driven by its own hungers so it is also essentially a hedonist. Even worse it is a self-destructive hedonist because it is willing to eat at an unsustainable level. It's pretty much insane.
The Imperium has plenty of dreadful people but the Sisters of Battle seem to hold themselves to the most extreme moral standards. Their purity of faith and strength of will lets them reach space-marine levels of performance, if only for a turn. They are pretty much the exemplars of what "unmodified" humans can become.

 

A swarm of bees dont really have a free will either but that doesnt make them evil...(EVIL bees! go awaaay!!!*runs*)
I like to think of them as a force of nature
this whole universe is pretty much scred so lets start again shall we? *nom nom nom nom nom*
therefore, tyranids are good

 

Just because something isn't evil doesn't mean it's good. Animals have no understanding of their actions so they have no moral dimension one way or another.
The Nids do have the Hive Mind though, and it should appreciate what it is doing. But that really just raises the question of why? Why travel for so long just to eat up the universe. Why not downsize your population until the universe is able to support you indefinitely? The Hive Mind really seems to be a blunderer on a strategic level and evil on a moral one due to the willfull and pointless destruction it causes.

 

hmm, well think of them as a form of nature, as stated before, this is pretty much a discussion of 'least evil' for obvious reasons.
the hive mind is not one entity as afr as we know, but a collection, or a pool of thaughts, all shared through synapse from every singly tyranid organism.
personally I think that the tyranids were created by the old ones as a 'self destruct button' sort of thing, everything the old ones have created is pretty much screwed over now, so they want to start again, nids are here to clean the slate, but thats a topic for another thread.
nature cant be evil really, So once again, nids for lest evil!! (or perhaps orks)

 

Who fights chaos, orcs, tyranids, demons, necrons, and dark eldar whenever they appear?

Who have actually shown mercy?

Who never invade a world unless they own it?

Who frequently help out the imperium despite the imperium's dislike of them?

Who were made to fight evil and defend life?

Who make the most beautiful works of art?

Who does all this despite near-extinction?

Eldar.

 

granted, but they help when it benefits them, they stay out of pretty much anything that doesnt concern them. they help themselves by helping other people. in fact it even says in the eldar codex Eldrad was the cause of the armagedon wars, because before Gazgul (i know spelled wrong back off) was a big bad warboss he fought a war against a rival boss and the eldar tipped it in Gazgul's favor because he would do less overall harm to the eldar themselves.
like i said eldar help others to aid in their race's overall survival.

and also, who voted for dark eldar!?

 

@ Soul, the reason nature is not evil is because it has no self-awareness. Either the Hive Mind is stupid and has no idea about what it's doing or else it's fully aware and thus also stupid and probably evil.

@ avatar the Eldar are totally indifferent to human suffering. That's not really very moral. We don't say the suffering of dogs is irrelevant because they are stupid compared to us. A complete lack of empathy makes them pretty seedy imo. Ultimatly they only care about furthering their own goals. If that means whole worlds must die, well so be it. That's not "good" it's downright psychopathic.

 

I vote Eldar, they are the definitive anti-Chaos, they don't want the war with humans, it's us who cause the problems, by mistrusting everybody. Think about this, if Eldar had wanted humans out of the way, they could have done it long ago, when humans were still crawling about in caves asking for food by going ug! and hitting their women over the head with clubs.
Eldar, defo the Eldar. Humans won't save any xenos, they kill them all, but Eldar will, and have taken in humans, helped humans relocate to other worlds if they don't fight, and even let the inquisition into the 'black library'. So Eldar by definition have to be reasonably good people. The imperium and Tau are Nazis by any other name, the Orks are just brutish morons who fight for no reason, Dark Eldar are slave trading pirate scum, Chaos are plain evil, Necrons are pure nastiness incarnate, and the Tyranids are just hungry, permanently.

 

Yeah that's true of the old 2nd edition era Eldar but they didn't like them being the "good guys" and changed their backstory to make them cold hearted bastards in the more up to date versions of their codex. They are still anti-Chaos and still far-sighted but their reasons have shifted. They don't care about saving Mon-Keigh, they couldn't care less. Their goal is basically the restoration of their empire and their "rightful" place in the galaxy. Chaos just stand in their way. The Humans who are on "their" world are just as much targets for their anger but it's a matter of whoever is the biggest threat.

 

They don't care about saving Mon-Keigh, they couldn't care less. Their goal is basically the restoration of their empire and their "rightful" place in the galaxy. Chaos just stand in their way. The Humans who are on "their" world are just as much targets for their anger but it's a matter of whoever is the biggest threat.

Wait, what?

So they don't care about man. Big deal. That still ranks them waaaaay above everyone else. No other race is so kind as to not care about someone, especially someone who would be only too happy to kill the lot of them. And yes, they defend the maiden worlds, because to them, man are invading them. And even then, they offer mercy and the chance to surrender. Would man be so kind to eldar settlers?

 

well, when compared to other armies the tau are easily the most good.
they dont enslave like dark eldar
they avoid war if possible and take peaceful options over anything else, unlike...well pretty much every other race except the eldar and even the eldar will kill u if it meant saving their race in the long run.

 

Horses, everyone forgets the horses. They do exist you know!


But on a serious note, it used to be the old ones. Then the crons killed them so it stands to reason that the old ones successors, the eldar, are the most good. And guess what. They are, by a long way.

Faults of all other races:

Dark Eldar - Tourture.
Necrons - Lead to the route of all evil in the galaxy and fall of old ones.
Space Marines - Serious cases of discrimination leading to genocide and indiscriminate killing.
Guard - Even worse discrimination leading to genocide and massacres.
Tau - They are essentially terrorists, they kill things because of their belief in "the greater good".
Orks - They kill for fun.
Kroot/Vespids - They kill for money
Daemon Hunters & Witch Hunters - Wipe out planets cos of pretty much any excuse.
Daemons - They kill because of... cos they can.
Tyranids - They kill other civilisations with no chance of reason. Even doing it for food it's still evil.
Chaos Marines - They worship things that kill because they can.

Which leaves eldar who have one problem, they lead to the fall and dark eldar. But that was necrons fault anyway so essentially they are the only race that doesn't do anything evil. All their actions are for survival and to stop true evil races.

 

Horses, everyone forgets the horses. They do exist you know!


But on a serious note, it used to be the old ones. Then the crons killed them so it stands to reason that the old ones successors, the eldar, are the most good. And guess what. They are, by a long way.

Faults of all other races:

(snip)
Daemons - They kill because of... cos they can.
(snip)

Which leaves eldar who have one problem, they lead to the fall and dark eldar. But that was necrons fault anyway so essentially they are the only race that doesn't do anything evil. All their actions are for survival and to stop true evil races.

Actually they kill because the phsycic morons from every other race created 4 beings of pure unfiltered dark emotions (not neccesarily evil) which then created the daemons.

Its not like a Bloodthirster can go "oh, I don't want to kill the squishy little pink men today." He has to go, "WTF KILL MAIN BLARG WTF!" Daemons aren''t evil by choice, they are chaotic (not evil) because they are made up of that energy. Khornate Daemons are made up of the universes hate, rqage and martial ambition. Tzeentchian Daemons are made of the universes deceptive tendencies, their secretive self-serving nature.... you get the idea, by no means are they good, but Daemons aren't evil.

I voted for Orks, simply because they really are the only race that you never have to wonder what they are planning, because their plans usually revolve around the concept of "SMASH DA PINK GROT-LOVERS!"