Given their pediliction to technology, presumably they are doing it themselves

 

Given their pediliction to technology, presumably they are doing it themselves

Your saying that creature that could not tell the differance between their ass and a rock performed gene splicing experiments on themselves with said rock in order to become smarter?
Forgive me seeing the irony in that *Visulising gene splicing performed in a cave with a rock and a donkey.* I'll take the advice in your sig.

 

Your saying that creature that could not tell the differance between their ass and a rock performed gene splicing experiments on themselves with said rock in order to become smarter?

Tau? Tau are technologically very adept, I think you are getting very confused or more likely you are struggling to understand the difference between Tau and Kroot, the latter being backwards, the former, whilst being not up the technology of the imperium, do understand their technology and are moving it forwards whilst the imperium is stagnating.

On the assumption you are talking Kroot, then the reason they show genetic tampering is well documented, they do it to themeselves by eating stuff that they then absorb genetic material off creating the varrious differnet kindreds, this is managed by their shapers and master shapers

Forgive me seeing the irony in that *Visulising gene splicing performed in a cave with a rock and a donkey.* I'll take the advice in your sig.

I think you seriously need to reconsider your Q, the Tau are not techno-neaderthols they are very advanced.

 

Are you asking about Tau or Kroot? Tau doesn't tamper with their genes, Kroot does.

 

There is not-so-subtle evidence that the Tau are being manipulated by an external force to speed their evolution: the appearance of Ethereals just when nessecary to keep them from destroying themselves, discovering a crashed spaceship just when the inspiration to develop space technology would work best for them, chance warp storms arriving just in time to save them from Imperial colonization, etc.

However, there has never (and hopefully will never be) any official word on who's doing it. Or indeed, if they're still doing it even. Some say the C'tan, some say some remnant of the Old Ones. Pages and pages of this have been argued about this but ultimately the answer is: No one knows, and Games Workshop isn't telling.

 

Ok, Tau are evolving unnaturally fast and show evidance of having been genetically enhanced. So i want to know who is playing with them to the point of induceing wars and dieseases in their population to speed the process?
Fluff masters?
Lucy.

Um.
Dude.
Seriously.

I've told you this before. They were a bunch of neandertals until the warp storm cam over T'au for 6,000 years.
The different castes are different because they were different subspecies (like our Blacks, Whites, Asians, and Latinos), and they all evolved slightly, came together in a society thanks to the Aryans (Ethreals), and this all possible in 6,000 years because of the massive warp storm shifting them.

You fail to realise the power of these warp storms, don't you?

It's all in the Codex, read it and be satisfied.:yes:

 

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the Tau being manipulated by something else, but I don't think it's self-evident from any of the fluff. I think it's one of the things we should just wait and see on.. Presumably, sooner or later someone at GW will get itchy enough to spill any beans there might be lurking in the background.. Until then, we just don't know.

Until then, we're all just venting unproven theories and conjecture.

 

Your saying that creature that could not tell the differance between their ass and a rock performed gene splicing experiments on themselves with said rock in order to become smarter?
Forgive me seeing the irony in that *Visulising gene splicing performed in a cave with a rock and a donkey.* I'll take the advice in your sig.

Lucy, please refrain from responding in such an impolite manner to another member who is actually trying to answer your question; I’m sure your rudeness will not inspire more members to reply to your thread, not least because Cheredanine is actually right.

The Tau, and I assume that you do actually mean the Tau and not the Kroot, do actually manipulate their own genetic evolution, and presumably have been doing so for some time to create the visible physical differences between the five Castes of Tau society. If you read the Black Library novel ’Firewarrior’ by Simon Spurrier, you’ll find that the Tau not only breed exclusively within their own caste but also have a ‘Propagation Department’ that calculates ‘optimum genetic compatibility’ and sends out summons to arrange for genetically ideal couplings.

However, I doubt that the Tau are actually inducing wars and diseases among themselves to improve their own evolution – apart from Commander Farsight, all Tau are obedient to their Ethereals and loyal to the concept of the Greater Good. Also, Tau medicine is very advanced and diseases seem almost non-existent in their species.

However, if you’re referring to who started the rapid Tau evolution in between the Imperium discovering them in .M35 as primitive hunter-gatherers and rediscovering them in .M41 as a highly technological society, then that is an entirely different question, and the true answer is that no one really knows. I wouldn’t think that the wars and diseases decimating the Tau race during their earliest existence were deliberately created any more than early human cultures created the Black Plague and the Crusades – it was just something that happened as a result of socio-political conflicts and lack of knowledge about proper hygiene.

However, we do know that the Ethereals had something to do with stopping these wars and putting an end to diseases running rampant, and likely they also started the idea of breeding only the most genetically perfect members of their species.

In Simon Spurrier’s background book ‘Xenology’, there are hints about the Tau’s genealogy connecting them to other creations of the Old Ones such as Eldar and Humans, as well as alien creatures living on planets supposedly never visited by the Tau themselves – whether the Old Ones really do play a part in the Tau’s development, though, is never truly revealed.

~Grephaun.

 

many say that the Ethereals are the Old Ones themselves (well some of them anyway) and as to why they look like Tau, i personally think that Tau are related to the Old Ones directly, they were probably just another gene-strain of the Old Ones, as to why none of the Ethereals seem to have a psyker presense, well they're the Old Ones, they can probably mask their psyker presence, and the Warp Storm was created by the Old Ones.

 

Presumably, sooner or later someone at GW will get itchy enough to spill any beans there might be lurking in the background.. Until then, we just don't know.

Yup. Its also possible that GW doesn't "know". Many times they write little mysteries in the background that they have no idea what the solutions are, just so later if they need a way to tie some new background in with the old they can tie it to one of their unused hooks. This could very well be one of those things.

 

many say that the Ethereals are the Old Ones themselves (well some of them anyway) and as to why they look like Tau, i personally think that Tau are related to the Old Ones directly, they were probably just another gene-strain of the Old Ones, as to why none of the Ethereals seem to have a psyker presense, well they're the Old Ones, they can probably mask their psyker presence, and the Warp Storm was created by the Old Ones.

Oh gods, another Old Ones conspiracy theory.

First of all, if (and it’s a big if) the Tau have anything to do with the Old Ones, then the genetic link between the two species would not be any stronger than that between Humans, Eldar, and Orks, who are all known creations of the Old Ones - they're separated by millions of years of evolution and mutation.

Furthermore, the Tau are not the Old Ones themselves – we know the Old Ones were psychic to a degree, which the Tau are not. They’re not merely hiding their psychic powers, they’re absolutely non-psychic – they can’t sense the warp at all, and even daemons have a hard time affecting most Tau because their existence simply doesn’t reflect in the warp at all. If Tau were psykers, they wouldn’t be so ignorant about the dangers of the warp, and they would certainly have expanded a lot further with warp-capable ships than what their measly empire now includes.

Also, if the Tau were the Old Ones, the Eldar would know about it and likely spend vastly more time around the Tau than they do now. The Eldar race is the only one to remember the War in Heaven that was the Old One’s last stand against the C’Tan and they fought side by side with the Old Ones; if the Old Ones were returned then the Eldar would without a doubt recognise them and react to their presence, which they haven’t done.

In short, there’s no way I can see that it should be possible for the Tau to be the Old Ones, or even just closer linked to the Old Ones than their other creations. If anything, the Tau are like humanity merely the result of uncontrolled evolution provided genetic material by the Old Ones but left undirected and unfocused after their disappearance.

~Greph.

 

and even daemons have a hard time affecting most Tau because their existence simply doesn’t reflect in the warp at all.

Where's your fluff reference for this? I've read nothing to suggest Tau are more resilient to chaos than anyone else, and in fact Games Workshop has heavily pushed a set of conversions that represent among other things, Tau posessed by Greater Daemons.

 

Tau cannot be affected by Daemons or the warp, the Codex is most explicit in this respect.

Their minds do not even register in the warp. Tau can still be killed by Daemons and followers of Chaos, thats not debated. However, Tau cannot be posessed on any level. They are not even remotely psychic, if they were able to navigate the warp, their empire would explode outwards.
Theoretically (and of course GW will never say anything of the sort) the Eldar could in the death-rattles of their race, give the Tau access to the webway. As far as I know this is possible, though I'm not sure at all.

That in itself is an interesting point, and one I would happily discuss .

 

As for Tau not registering in the warp, it’s stated in the Codex that “…such [psychic] talents were a mystery to the Tau as they had no psychic abilities whatsoever, their minds barely even registering in the warp at all.” About them not being possessed by daemons, I would refer you to the book and game of ‘Firewarrior’; unfortunately, I don’t have the book with me now to look up the exact passage, but I will do so tomorrow. For now, I have the following quote from Wikipedia: ”Indeed, in the video game Warhammer 40,000: Fire Warrior, it is revealed that the Tau are naturally resistant to the mutating effects of Chaos, having almost no psychic presence in the warp at all.”

On the subject of conversions, I wouldn't put too much faith in them - most GW artists are known to utilise their artistic liberty to the fullest, so while I admit that Possessed Tau would look awesomely cool, there's still no basis for their existence in the fluff.

As for the Eldar giving the Tau access to the Webway, they might do that if they so care, but to my knowledge it requires psychic powers to actually open the Webway portals from the Materium to allow passage of ships and people, and so the Tau would be hopelessly lost without help from either psykers or psychic devices to open Webway portals. Since I’ve never heard of the latter existing (the Eldar would be too smart to ever construct such a potentially dangerous device that could fall into the wrong hands), that means the Tau are not likely to benefit from knowledge of the Webway even if the Eldar gave it to them.

~Greph.

 

what i meant was that the Old Ones were deliberatly avoiding being noticed, which is why the Eldar wouldnt recognise them, their arent that many here and theyr just trying to affect the Tau without interference, and i never said the Tau were the Old Ones. i said they might have been a somewhat closer genetic difference, they evolved differently and thats why they dont have psyker powers, because the Old Ones helped to protect them from dying because they share some common genes, not exact genes just some common genes, kind of like how humans are somewhat related to gorrilas but not are smarter but weaker, were different but related.

 

About them not being possessed by daemons, I would refer you to the book and game of ‘Firewarrior’; unfortunately, I don’t have the book with me now to look up the exact passage, but I will do so tomorrow.

I'm not going to regard a Black Library book or a video game to be any more official than conversions and how-to guides hosted on Games Workshop's own site. Especially given the atrocious record of some Black Library books (Kill Team, for example).

I'm going to have to say that Tau can be affected by daemons and the warp, as they are given no immunities to psychic powers or warp-related weapons (wraithcannon, etc) or Daemon attacks in the game. Whether or not they are resistant to mutation and posession, its possible. But it would be a matter of degrees, not a full-on immunity.

Tau certainly have no psychers of their own, and to say the Ethereals are the Old Ones themselves is IMHO a bit of a stretch, but lets not overemphasize the Tau's psychic dullness. They are not Pariahs.

 

you cannot and i repeat cannot possess the Tau because they have NO warp presence AT ALL therefore anything that involves the warp like mutation by Chaos (affect of Chaos Gods working from the warp through psyker presences) or possession (involving a creature with some psyker presence being controlled by a daemon) now those warp-type weapons involve physical affects, all physical affects involving the warp (mutation doesnt count because it is spurred on through the warp) so if a daemon ripped a Tau's head off, its not like it just wouldnt happen, but if he tried to possess the Tau, nothing would happen.

 

This is from an article on using Tau as daemon hunter adversaries.

Tau cannot be possessed from the warp i.e, a daemon cannot simply overpower their consciousness and pop into their head like it can with more psychic creatures.

Tau can be possessed or warped by physical effects. For example, Tau exposed to the raw energies of chaos will mutate, slowly, but surely. A tau who picks up an artifact housing a daemon in the physical world, like a daemon weapon, can be possessed by it. A tau who is targetted by a psychic power will not just laugh it off, though he might have some degree of resistance.

It's rare, but it could happen.

 

Exccellent Mantis, much obliged.

 

as they are given no immunities to psychic powers or warp-related weapons (wraithcannon, etc)

Well, the Wraithcannon/D-cannon opens up a miniature warp-hole that tears the target apart. I doubt psychic immunity would help that much against it.

I highly doubt that the Etherals are the Old Ones. The Old Ones were beings of imense power and such strength would not go unnoticed, especialy not by the Eldar and their high understanding of the Warp and its ways.

And if they would have returned, then why remain hidden? Now that the Necrons are weak, because of their recent awakening, the Old Ones could strike with their very powerful Warp-weapons and deliver a fatal blow to the Necrons.

Also, if the Tau are creations of the Old Ones then they lack the great advantage that the Old One's childs always had. Psychic powers. The most potent weapon against the Star Gods.

 

Also, if the Tau are creations of the Old Ones then they lack the great advantage that the Old One's childs always had. Psychic powers. The most potent weapon against the Star Gods.

I have the answer too this!
in the codex necron it states that the old ones realised the deasmons were caused by their new races meddling in the warp(using it to kill) had destabelised it. So they attempted to create races without Psychic powers who could defeat the Necron-Tyr. Yeah!

 

I have the answer too this!
in the codex necron it states that the old ones realised the deasmons were caused by their new races meddling in the warp(using it to kill) had destabelised it. So they attempted to create races without Psychic powers who could defeat the Necron-Tyr. Yeah!

And we know how well that went...

As far as we know, using the Warp is the only known way to kill the C'tan (Talismans of Vaul being most potent). Lot's a firepower only destroys their body which is reanimated later.

 

I have the answer too this!
in the codex necron it states that the old ones realised the deasmons were caused by their new races meddling in the warp(using it to kill) had destabelised it. So they attempted to create races without Psychic powers who could defeat the Necron-Tyr. Yeah!

I don’t remember anything about the Old Ones creating non-psychic races in the Necron Codex – in fact, I believe it says that humanity was one of the last races touched by the Old Ones before their disappearance, which is why our evolution has been allowed to run rampant for the past 60 million years. And as we know, humanity harbours the most powerful psyker ever to have lived in the galaxy, the Emperor – hadn’t it been for the C’tan introducing the Pariah gene to our gene pool and reducing the effect of the Psyker gene in the majority of humans, it might very well had been that all humans would’ve been as powerful as the Emperor.

It is suggested in the Black Library novel ‘Faith and Fire’ that the Emperor's last great work before the Heresy was about restoring humanity to its rightful place as the true children of the Old Ones and their most powerful C’tan-killing creation – this, to me, indicates that the Old Ones sought to create ever stronger psychic races, not weaker ones.

Since the C’tan have full control of all physical matter and practically ignore the laws of physics, there’s nothing the Tau can currently throw at them which will have any effect – as Mighty Camel says, only warp powers can hurt the C’tan in any real way. So to me it would make little sense for the Old Ones to have created the Tau, a race that’s basically entirely defenceless against the Old Ones’ most potent enemies.

~Greph.

 

Well, seeing as they are most definitly wiser and smarter than us I'm not asking for an explaination I can fully grasp, just an explaination.
So, every one thinks it was the old ones.
That would sort of explain the affinity felt by the Eldar.

 

Well, not really...
I'm always a fan of evolutionary randomness. Remember that we, the humans, are extremly lucky to have this presisce world and all. It's kind of amazing when you consider all the factors that was required for life to evolve...