if you can, give us your point levels and general makeup of the armies. There are several ways to build an empire army (one of the more diverse armybooks). I have my own ideas that I would follow, but if you already have certain models, I could try to help you out with that. What does his army have? Are his vampires magic oriented or combat oriented or both? Vampires are a tough matchup for anyone in their present state, but we should be able to give you a few tips.

 

It seems the trick is to take out the general (which is always a vampire for him).

Van Horstmann's speculum on a battle wizard or warrior priest:ninja: (sp?)

You issue a challenge. If he is a blood dragon, he must accept. If not he probably refuses.

If he accepts you use the speculum to switch stats and beat his face in! 8Y
If he refuses than at least he is out of the combat.

This might only work once, afterwords your opponent will avoid the speculum bearer at all cost.

 

Mh, i am new to fantasy but own both a VC and empire army, so i will be keeping an eye on this thread.


Experts, take it away! :ninja3:

 

Speculum wont work. He knows Empire too well to fall for that. And his vamps are never in combat. They cast invocation and raise dead and dance over and over and over. his skellies double in two turns.

He usually starts with a unit of zombies, 2-3 of skellies, and sometimes a unit of ghouls. A vamp lord or two (depending on points...only in a 3000 pt game did he have a CC Vamp). Then hell usually have a varghulf, 1-2 units of dire wolves, a unit of black knights and maybe a unit of blood knights. also, hes starting to like spirit hosts and cairn wraiths. The cavalry and fast movers are what usually do me in.

A capt on pegasus with Aldreds casket is my next idea, but its only once a turn and only on a 4+. Magic is another thing that kills me...its darn near impossible to destroy a unit when he casts like 5 invocations of nehek on them. Even when I take all wizardsand priests, his magic still dominates mine.

Ive got 25 Halberds, 60 spears, 50 swords, 10 pistoliers, 15 free company, 5 outriders, 30 Knights, 20 flagellants, 60 handgunners, 20 Xbows, 5 cannon, 3 mortar, 1 helblaster, 1 helstorm, and enough heroes n lords to do whatever you suggest.

 

scary...:0 in that case, the only thing i can think of is using a captain on a pegasus with a sword of fate and taking the fight to his lord.

always run your cannons through his casters when you can. you never know, he might just fail the "look out sir" test. :ninja3:

Vamps are very tough in the current edition, they are gonna be really tough to beat.

 

How am I supposed to taregt his casters? Im told that while I can pick whatever unit with the cannons (becuase they are warmachines) I must go through the closest point of the unit. The next best thing is Mortars, but theyre too weak to hurt them really.

 

You can target a cannon anywhere you want. It's a guess range weapon, so you pick a spot, guess a range, and shoot. He can still get "Look Out Sir" rolls and if he's smart he's given his lord a ward save or put him in a unit with the drakenhof banner, but if not maybe you can cannonball him to death.

A much better strategy is to take a look at his cavalry and figure out how to stop THAT, because the way that Vampire Counts win (aside from using magic) is with combat resolution and auto breaking by out numbering. The way he is doing that is by flanking, which is correct. The way you want to beat him is also by outflanking. So here's what you do:

1) Take at least one scroll caddie (hero level wizard with 2 dispel scrolls). If he is really magic heavy or it's a high points game take two. Save the scrolls to stop Vanhel's, because that is the spell that is letting him outmaneuver you, and it costs him 2-3 dice per cast if he wants a decent chance to get it off (book of arkhan should be dispelled with one die).

2) Take pistoliers and/or outriders. You know what his plan is, and while there is no way you are going to stand up to his blood knights in a straight up combat, they make great targets for gunpowder weapons. Position some outriders on a flank with pistoliers to reroute the charge (his knights are frenzied, so use that against him) and fill him full of lead. If you don't feel comfortable using outriders then use pistoliers exclusively and bait him from one spot to another while you whittle him down. Put some handgunner detachments along the outside of your flank units, facing at a 45 degree angle outward (you can arrange them so that if he charges them and overruns he'll shoot past the back of your main regiment). If he charges, stand and shoot. If you kill even one of his 55+ point knights, your 6 man detachment has paid for itself and given him something to think about.

The bottom line is you cannot allow him to steal your rank bonuses and hit your flanks, period. Put whatever you need to put there to keep him away. Hellblasters, Steamtanks, Flagellants, whatever.

His stuff is expensive and yours is not, so he can't be everywhere all of the time unless you let him.

 

You can target a cannon anywhere you want. It's a guess range weapon, so you pick a spot, guess a range, and shoot. He can still get "Look Out Sir" rolls and if he's smart he's given his lord a ward save or put him in a unit with the drakenhof banner, but if not maybe you can cannonball him to death.

Just remember that you need LoS (stupid, yeah, but it's the rules- it even applies to Stone Throwers and Mortars).

From experience, these are the 3(though arguable 2) big strengths the VCs run to:
1) Fear-causing troops. These are nasty, especially as most of our troops are Ld7. The best way to counter this is to chuck all characters with a Ld8+ in units. The Lore of Light has some nifty spells in in, boosting Ld, doing some real damage to Undead etc. The Icon of Magnus is another useful one.

2) Magic. Lots of it. Their spells are nasty, and they have lots of great spellcasters. Extra Dispel Dice help here, but I think Scrolls will serve you better here.

3) Attrition. You get stuck in a long combat, they'll raise more units to join the combat and you'll simply be running because there's too many of them. Try to get into combats you know you'll win within 4 or so combat phases. Detachments help a lot here (flank charge, they lose ranks, you can swing outnumber- a swing of up to 14).

The Laurels of Victory help a lot here against VCs. Some Lord characters with them can win combats on their own against fully ranked up units.

-AFG//

 

Will do. I did not know they were frenzied...thatll make controlling bloodknights a bit easier : D

TY much, executor! Ill give that a try either tomorrow or this weekend.

 

well id say take as many WP as you can, also an archlector if you have him, on his pope mobile he's the bane of undead. WP lead by a Archlector give you tons of DD which come in handy, and you'll actuly have magic phase of your own if you ad a few bound items.

On another note, gear up one WP with speculum, and make it clear he has it, then send the arch lector at the leader, he'll heppily acept as he knows the seculum is elsewhere, now give the Arch Lector a defensive set up and the Strnth 10 attack weapon and he has a fair chance of winning. If you use your magic right he should get d6 strength 5 autohitting wounds with no armout save followed by a 50% chance of creaming him in CC. If you charge the vamp should be dead within two rounds of combat. Not bad for a character who will only have one attack.

 

WP for DD? shouldnt it be wizards?

Anyway I cant charge the vamp general. surrounded by massed skellies. and if I did that Id open myself to his cavalry...after they finish murdering the rest of my army.

 

You could just fight fire with fire. Ok, im a VC player (hence the sig ^^) and i like to think i know what im talking about. Now, i will get the problem units out the way.

Blood Knights: As mentioned earlier, these are frenzied. You could quite easily beat them to the ground using two units of pistoliers. Put one unit about 12" away, and the other one about 5" to the side of it. He has to charge unit 1, so unit 2 runs behind him and fills him full of lead, while unit 1 rallies and keeps baiting.

Black Knights: These are much more problematic, as they can move through terrain (i love doing that to people). However, you have Black Powder for a reason. 40 Handgunners and a Cannon or Two will put a dent in these buggers. Against Handguns they only have a 4+ save. If worst comes to worst, try and engage them with a big unit of something (and i mean BIG, think 30+) and grind them down. Theyre nowhere near as nasty off the charge. Also, try some of your own cavalry (Inner circle with lances) and see if you can get a charge off on them.

Dire Wolves: Invest in crossbowmen. Theyre bloody ace at this. Wolves should all be gone by the end of third turn, or your in trouble, as then it starts getting to late to deal with them.

Skeletons: Take two big units of 25+ Flagellants. See how he likes it! They should kick the crap out of skeletons, and they wont run from fear!! Also, try and flank him with your own cav. He likes his ranks even more than you like yours.

Ok, now on to beating the Vampires themselves.

Well, its not too hard really, theyre not THAT solid. Now, i would put a Horstmanns speculum in a unit of Flaggies, no one wants to touch that. Then, try a mounted lord to go running after the Vamp Lord in a unit of Pistoliers. Theyre fast cav so should get there quickly. Get a charge off, doesnt matter if you die or not, but kit him up so he kicks the crap out of characters (Sword of Fate does that i think?). Remember, even if you die, when his lord dies, his whole army goes with him.

As for anti magic, you could take 2 Level 2 Light Wizards. Then give them both 2 Scrolls. This means when his mages start dying, your magic starts hurting a lot more. Then a Warrior Priest with the Speculum.

All this advice is based on 2k. Just size everything up a bit for 3k though.

~Archy~

P.S. it physically hurt me to tell you how to beat my army....

 

Ok.

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/empire-army-lists/118751-2000-cavalry.html#post1146263



What do you guys think of that list? My VC opponent made it because hes starting to feel sorry for me. I'll make a list with your advice tomorrow.

 

I like to use cannons in a crossfire. 1 at each end of the table almost. That way he will always be exposing a flank to one of them with his knights. A cannon ball with a good bounce can destroy a whole unit of knights (even if in trees) as long as you don't roll a 1 to wound. Helstrom Rockets make short work of big units. Archlector is good, but warpriests are not that good in dispelling or adding to your magic phase. They're just for fluff. The archlector on wagon is good because he throws lots of bound spells, has magic resisitance, is unbreakable and protects the archlector with the wardsave and can cast cleansing flare over and over. Really 2 level 2's (1 carrying 2 scrolls, the other with the ring of volans and the rod of power) is the magic defense you need. aldreds captain is annoying but doesn't always work.

You can't put any characters into a unit of flaggellants so don't try that (it was mentioned above) Knights are good with a warpriest for the hatred on the charge. Really the VC is tough, but the empire has lots of ways of dealing with them as long as you can pass a fear test every now and then.

 

Oh yeah sorry forgot about that.

My bad

~Archy~

 

So what happened to the advice for Empire againste VC?

 

Im done trying Empire for the moment, I'm experimenting with Brettonians