Marauders, Marauder Horsemen, Trolls, Throgg, Warhounds, Wulfrik, Dragon Ogres, Chaos Spawn, Giants. He wants to spam Lore of Metal at you, then spam an army with no armour at him. I generally don't like playing against armies that are specifically tailored against me and if someone does it more than once then I'm more than happy to either tailor right back at him or simply stop playing him. Anyone can tailor an army against another army, but that kind of removes the fun from it.

 

I'm not one for tailoring either. If people want to tailor against me then thats fine.......... They just have to predict what Chaos army I'm bringing...... Marauders or Warriors.


As for killing balthasar. He's not that tough, even with a 3+ Ward Vs shooting. If you're able to blast him with magic of some variety (if he's on his own) then he should fall over. Other than that......What El_Don said. The Lore of Metal is also not that scary. It can be good against Knights but chuck on some Magic resistance items and MoT on your units and you should weather the Storm fairly well.

 

Borak has given a good idea, here - this is one of the moments where magic resistance shines, especially if you already have a Ward save to work with (via Mark of Tzeentch, for example). And of course, you have access to troops that rely on numbers or regeneration for protection instead of armor - Lore of Metal doesn't do much to them.

 

If he is flying the guy around on a Pegasus, then I can't imagine that a lvl 3 fireball or Gateway couldn't sort him out in pretty short order. Or does he have an armor save? Cause if so, steal his own spell and chuck it on him. In either case, I think that a Disk rider with Roar could give him some pause as well.

 

Tell him to quit being a jerk and tailoring his list to yours. No one takes metal unless they know they are fighting WoC. Tailoring lists sucks the fun out of games.

 

It's what I have to deal with. Sadly there are no local g.w. that do regular tournies or "fun" days so I'm stuck playing the same 4 people each time and they all have a build just for me. The funny thing though is they have never won a game once out of the 20 or so games I've played with them.

I take that back. Dark Elves beat me once cuz my sorc blew up my warriors unit and marauders were pin cushions.

 

If you're worried about a guy on a pegasus, Lore of Heavens is your friend. The Lore Attribute specifically targets critters with the 'fly' special rule.

 

If you're worried about any guy at all, Lore of Death is your best pick. That Lore specifically targets individual models with a choice of 3 sniper spells.

 

I'm just saying... I have a group of a few people I regularly play too, and we each have our one or two choice armies. But we still attempt to write our lists in a fair fashion, as if we don't know what army we will be facing. If my buddy took Balthasar against my WoC list I'd smack him and he knows it.

Try this. Each of you pick another army book, and write a list for it in addition to your current list. Then flip two coins to determine which list you will each use. It will force each of you to write balanced lists without gimmicky special characters.

 

Yep, that's Tailoring. I'd rather see a player cheat, than tailor an armylist to beat me.
If you're having difficulty with Balthazar, I have 2 suggestions which can be used together at the same time -
1. Lore of Heavens - I used this on a Vampire sitting on top of a Dragon once, and it was hilarious. Two of the spells cause D6 S6 hits (chain lightning isn't just for packed armies) and the lore attribute causes an additional D6 S4 hits to flying models. When you slam someone with 2D6S6 + 2D6S4 hits in a single phase, they usually fall right over.
2. Daemon Prince - he can fly, and he doesn't wear any armor. Plus he can go with MoT for a 4+ wardsave (if you don't run him as your Heavens guy). The thing about him flying though, is that he can hang out behind your lines and wait to get the drop on Baltha-sack. If that pegasus riding pansy comes near enough to cast a spell, you hop over your guys and eat his face with the Daemon. A Disced-up character can do this too, but then you're getting into armor, and even our basic 4+ makes Lore of Metal a bit scary.

I wouldn't take Wulfrik against him though - he's not in a unit, so you don't need to challenge him out, and he flies, so he'll avoid close combat anyways. I'd still take Wulfy to deal with his gunline (because he sounds like that kind of a guy) but I wouldn't chase Balthazar around with him.

If you want to counter-tailor a list to fight empire, hordes of Marauders paired up with flying characters (move a unit, fly the character to it, move the unit he just left, repeat - it keeps your Discs in cover without slowing your army down) and some nice Leadership spells will wreck him. Heck, your Marauders don't even need Greatweapons against Empire - you already wound him on a 4+ and you're going to mulch his lines when you all strike simultaneously.

But that's not the point. Tailoring an armylist is the point. If you can, swap armies with a friend, and beat this joker. If you're playing with a local group, have everyone write one armylist to use for the week, and draw straws for who plays against eachother. Or put all of your armies into a collective "pool" and just share. My group did this for a long time, and I can honestly say that I'm now comfortable picking up any armybook in the game and writing a competitive list with it (it helps that I own half of the armies already). Learning and playing with the other books will give you a better understanding of the game anyways.

 

Hm, if you're having difficulties because of single wizard - why can't you use feedback scroll or trickster's shard to damage him personally? I am not sure if it works, have no experience with magic...

 

Lots of ideas there. I'm actually planning an "at home" tournament for my friends and I to eliminate all this crap of pre-fab'd armies. It's no fun cuz both sides are hitting eachother like mac trucks and it doesn't take alot of skill to do much of anything in tha games.

My idea:

-Everyone brings their army and each army gets a number.
-Each player rolls a d6 and what they roll is the army they get to use for the tournament.
-We then get 20 minutes to comprise a 1k list with that army.
-After 20 minutes, we all roll off again to see who is playing who (now they need to start thinking about an all-comer's style list instead of LoM my ass all the time).
-After each match, everyone will have an opportunity to adjust their list and everyone rolls off to see who they are fighting again. Once an individual has 2 losses they are eliminated from the tourny.
-When the last two people are left, it's winner claims total victory (even if the loser was undefeated up til this points). The catch is these two individuals will now be have to comprise a 2k list (this is the only match that thelist can be set-up for a specific enemy, to be represented as the two armies have slain all the others and know there is only 1 enemy remaining on their conquest for glory).
-Each game scenario is picked using the WHFB Rule Book using a d6 to randomize the scenario, terrain is rolled on as normal.



I figure this will eliminate people "cheating" until the last match and even then, they may not be using their own army for the day so there is no "sure-fire" list they would know. It gives everyone a chance to try different armies, learn new tactics, and learn the ability to make a speedy list that can be used for virtually any army.

The armies we have available are Wood Elves, Warriors of Chaos, Empire, Dwarves, Orcs and Goblins, Skaven.


Oh and during the next match I play against the Empire I'm gonna blow up Balthasar with either magic or keep him continually fleeing from combat (cuz if I am not mistaken if he flees as a charge reaction he has to try to rally the next turn and can't cast on a phase he rallied in?)

 

He can cast just fine if he flees and rallies. He can't cast if he's still fleeing, though.

As for the tournament... maybe that's working for you and your group (and good for you in that case), but I know it wouldn't sit well with me. If I'm kicking your butt, deal with it. Build better lists. Make better decisions. Play better. I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing, because you're losing (that said, I never tailor my list - mostly unnecessary). If you give me another army, I'd read up on that one and bring a good list to the table. If you give me a random army, I've already researched enough to put a good list out there. It's not that hard to do. This game is not lopsided enough for an army to have no shot against another, provided that some time investment is put in.

 

I've got every intention to womping people with their own armies but again, there are no GWs nearby that have friendly game days and I'm getting tired of fighting the same crap over and over again. Everytime I play vs empire i expect in a 2k list to be 2 cannon, at least 1 mortar, balthasar, 3 regisments of handgunners, 2 regiments of outriders with the bachland rifles...so yeah.

Trying to break people of the habit of trying to make this uber awesome list just to fight WoC, cuz I have a skaven army and next time I play them 1v1 I'm just gonna use that and tell them too bad so sad. lol

 

We need a poll to vote for who will be the two finalists in this tournament.

I vote Warriors of Chaos vs. Dorfs.

 

Roth, I agree with you mostly, if someone is whooping you, get better. Learn from your mistakes. But if the whooping is due to tailoring and not skill and list-writing efficiency, then it's a totally different ball game. I know you said you don't tailor, but unfortunately it's a more prevalent problem with other players than you'd think.

 

Yep. It's just boring seeing the same stuff on the table and still beat him senseless. In a Tower game, a unit of 5 chaos hounds held the tower cuz he was too focused on trying to gun down my warriors, Chosen, and spawns. And they held the tower for 7 turns because he didn't assault it with anything. I think he's a little too happy with artillery imo but what can you do..

 

Oh, I know. While I don't tailor, that doesn't mean people in my playgroup don't do it... for all the good it does them.

Tailoring only goes so far against a solidly built list, though. Take for example Lore of Metal v. us. A death sentence for Knights, not that big a deal if you don't have shields on your Warriors (wounding on a 4+, same as any old fireball), not even a blip on the radar vs. Marauders or Trolls. The reason why you see different flavors of all-comers lists is because of local metas - obviously if everyone insists on bringing Lore of Metal, the utility of Knights goes down. So you bring Trolls. Still solid from the all-comers perspective, and it solves that problem nicely.

 

I've got to admit, I play against pretty much the ultimate unapologetic tailorer, but if you mix your list up enough it always throws them for a loop. I'm not that great a player, so I do get beaten a lot, but DANG you should see what happens when I do win

 

Yeah I try to mix things up, but I can't stand marauders. Maybe it's my play style and maybe I just pick bad match ups, but I don't like going into fights knowing I will likely lose CR, lose frenzy, and rely on steadfast.

Meanwhile you gotta run every warrior with shields. At their price, one shield save at range pays for the entire unit's shields.

Either way, metal screws us. We are a target-rich environment for it. Even if they can't hit trolls, my knights will be toast and my warriors will be very expensive sludge. Pair that with the fact that metal is considered a mediocre all-comers lore at best, and it becomes unforgiveable to see it across the field. It's not unbeatable, just an obvious meta ploy by your opponent.

 

From the perspective of an empire player, lore of metal is NOT specifically anti-WoC. I use it in my all comers lists. It works well against the expensive problem units of most armies. Exceptions include skaven, wood elves, TK, daemons, and lizzies. The lore even includes a sniper spell, which most lords outside death do not. Metal is great against brets, stunties, everybody's heavy cav, greatswords, all HE special infantry, anything with a 4+ or better armor save. And the mega-spell isn't dependent on a single low characteristic. It's equally effective against anything other than OK. Not the worst lore in the book, and it addresses one of empire's principle weakneses, which is lack of AP.

 

But it's not the best lore either, by far, and as Emp, you have better options, like beasts, life, and fire. Metal isn't terrible, but unless I know the guy across from me likes metal against everyone, or it's a tourney and he has to play metal the whole tourney, I will call bullshit.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I've never feared metal, it has yet to hurt me terribly. Magic just isn't that scary.

 

But it's not the best lore either, by far, and as Emp, you have better options, like beasts, life, and fire. Metal isn't terrible, but unless I know the guy across from me likes metal against everyone, or it's a tourney and he has to play metal the whole tourney, I will call bullshit.

As you like... I took metal in LO's last listwar, LOL! And actually, I'd take heavens or shadow over everything you listed except life.