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If Sanguinius was warmaster instead of Horus......

13K views 41 replies 22 participants last post by  learza  
#1 ·
What would happen? would the great Sanguinius also befallen to chaos or would the entire universe be safe and prosper?
I was just reading the old codex when i found out that when Horus was trapped the rubble, he said he wished sanguinius should have been the warmaster, not him.

So what would happen if this was true?

Will we still have taitor legion with the civil war?
Will the imperium be safe and prosper since no civil war happened?
Just curious to see what you guys tink.:beer:
 
#2 ·
Th Chaos Gods would have tempted him. Pretty-boy Sanguinius would have said "screw that, not enough manly man-love". Then everyone would have had waffles.

It's very difficult to say since it would change so much. Look at all the events required to place Horus in the position that the Chaos Gods could tempt him.
It's kinda like asking "How would the current galaxy look if the Emperor hadn't united Mankind?". There's simply too many variables that need to be answered with wild mass guessing to even make a remotely plausible answer.
 
#4 ·
Well... From what I understand, the Word Bearers had turned to Chaos before Horus had even considered it... And Erebus (I think?), one of the Word Bearers, contributed greatly to Horus' fall to Chaos.

I guess they went after Horus because he was the Warmaster, or because there was a bond of trust between them that made corrupting him easier. But Sanguinius wouldn't have become Warmaster (in the theoretical scenario that he did) without that same trust and respect forming between battle brothers, so I think the situation would have been largely the same.

And then there are other Legions that seemed to turn of their own accord, although such actions may have been influenced by the Heresy. The Night Lords come to mind - I think it depends a little on who you listen to, but they turned away from the Imperium when assassins tried to kill their Primarch, so I think they would have turned traitor regardless.

I guess I don't really know but I think it still would have happened. Maybe it may have been a little smaller if a different warmaster was at the helm, or maybe it would have been worse depending on how well they turned people to their side.
 
#5 ·
The assassin who went after the Night Haunter took place after the Heresy. The Emperor had called most of the Primarchs to a council some time before the Heresy and decided that the Night Lords would be dealt with most severely because of their extremely brutal tactics and fondness of killing everything in sight without any particular reason. The fact that Curze beat up Dorn, killed the Marines guarding him and destroyed Nostramo Death Star-style didn't really help his case. :p The Heresy just happened to start before the purging could begin.
 
#8 ·
I think he was pretty well liked. Horus himself said that he thought that only Sanguinius had the willpower, charisma and moral fortitude to pull off succeeding the Emperor, although that might have been the result of Horus' nagging self-doubt. It helps that his mutation manifested itself in the most aesthetically pleasing and religiously symbolic way possible.

None of the Primarchs were anywhere close to human, so it doesn't make sense that they'd base their opinion of Sanguinius on feelings of genetic supremacism. They probably thought all unaugmented humans were weak, complaining little pricks who didn't appreciate the amount of killing that happened in their name. It was that exact attitude that got half of them rebelling in the first place; they thought the Emperor was handing power to the puny mortals.
 
#9 ·
Granted, I haven't read the Horus Heresy series yet (although I do intend to) but I was told that the Emperor made a bit of a deal with the Chaos gods when he made the marines. Something about giving up all or part of humanity. He reneged on the deal, thinking that his marines would be able to claim victory over the forces of Chaos, never thinking that Chaos might use his own creations against them.
If this is true, I think that it wouldn't matter who the Primarch was, the Heresy would've happened. And I think that the gods would have targeted the Warmaster no matter who it had been, and that they would have successfully turned him away from his cause.

Had they targeted Sanguinius, I think that it would have been much the same for the marines, but much more severe for the Humans. He would've pulled about half the legions (maybe more than Horus as result of him being better liked), but far more of the human population would have rallied around him because he was more loved, and because he looked like a divine being. The Heresy would've taken on a far more religious point of view than it actually did.

If they hadn't been able to corrupt Sanguinius, I think that there would have been small rebellions on the scale of Badab. However, as the Empire grew, I believe the situation would become more and more like Rome. The laxity which allowed Magnus to not only survive but also to flourish in his dark arts would have meant that Chaos would have an easier time swaying not only the mortal citizenry, but also the marines. Remember that a lot of the institutions and rules that are adhered to in the Empire today, would have never come about if not for the Heresy.
We'd have also probably wiped out the Eldar, leaving Chaos to run free in the galaxy.
 
#10 ·
In the HH series, it's implied that the primarchs each embodied an aspect of the Emperor. Horus was his pride, making him one of the easiest to turn (once the process is started). The Blood Angels and the Word Bearers didn't get on as well as the Luna Wolves and the WBs, so Erebus would have had a harder time getting access to Sanguinius the Warmaster.

While Horus has his detractors (and admittedly the BA haven't had their own book in the HH series yet) it's mentioned that most of the other primarchs got on well with Sanguinius. So if he HAD been corrupted, it would have been a lot worse for the Imperium - although I find that unlikely. And without the death of the Emperor, we'd be less likely to have a Rome-like situation - we'd have pacified the rest of the galaxy, but then probably have had more to worry about from the necrons than chaos.
 
#42 ·
If its true that the primarchs were suppose to embody part of the emperor then dam The Lion must of got his suspicious and untrusting nature, as well as his fortitude in battle i am not 100% sure on the last part but it seems that way to be honest. even thou he was second in tactical skill to horus. I still think that the lion was as human as the primarchs can get.

he had flaws everyone knew that part of him, and i think no matter who would of been the warmaster they would of been turned eventually. as the old saying goes "absolute power corrupts absolutely" its the only other certainty in life.
 
#13 ·
All the primarchs were psychic to one degree or another.. Horus could melt terminators with this mind, and I seem to remember Sanguinius also being decidedly above average in the mental-fu scale. Magnus was more tollerant of human psychics, which put him at odds with the Emperor, at least, but in terms of psychic power the problems only came later on when he delved into sorcery and daemonic powers..
 
#16 ·
Of course, Magnus directly disobeyed one of the Emperor's orders (Specifically, sending a psychic message to earth... which broke the webway gate behind the golden throne)... so that didn't really help his case, and Horus convinced Russ (who already didn't like Magnus) to kill him instead of take him back for questioning, which was what the Emperor had told him to do.


Also, I like waffles. Sanguinius for Warmaster '12
 
#22 ·
Warning: Sorcery is known to attract Wolves.

They added all the psychic warding stuff in later, did they? That's interesting - maybe GW realised their fluff wasn't convincing anyone that sorcery was really all that bad.
 
#24 · (Edited)
The fluff in the new BA codex makes it abundantly clear that Sanguinius was a genuinely good person. Not just charismatic, like Horus; he was the only Primarch with a consistently optimistic attitude about humanity and its future. He spent his time on Baal working to rebuild Baalite society to the paradise it once was, and when he was found by the Emperor he didn't stop; he just expanded his scope to cover the entire fledgling Imperium. There's this real theme of futurism and progress about Sanguinius that is totally absent in the rest of the Imperium.

The Chaos Gods got to Horus by convincing him that once the Crusade was over, the Marines and their sacrifice would be forgotten. Sanguinius didn't seem to care about that, he wasn't really into recognition or being lauded. It was enough for him that they were building a better galaxy. For a notably fascist sense of the word "better."

With some of the Primarchs, like Magnus or Kurze, you get the impression that they could easily have been good people if stuff had just gone differently. And some, like Russ, you could easily see turning evil (sh*t, he's kind of evil to begin with). But with Sanguinius it's just...impossible, as if he's made of such incorruptible pure pureness that you couldn't turn him evil without fundamentally altering his character. Like Superman. You cannot imagine Superman turning evil; if he did, he wouldn't be Superman. He'd have to be someone else, someone weaker and more human.
 
#25 ·
Like Superman. You cannot imagine Superman turning evil; if he did, he wouldn't be Superman. He'd have to be someone else, someone weaker and more human.
What say he'd crashed to earth in Korea, for example, or Myanmar, rather than Kansas. Different kettle of fish there, eh? Same dealio with the Primarchs.
 
#27 ·
As mentioned previously, the Chaos Gods were pulling every string they had to try and turn the Primarchs and bring destruction to the Imperium, or more specifically, the Emperor because he has used their power for his own "good" purposes and then betrayed them - and so they scattered the Primarchs, meaning they each would grow without the guidance of their patriarch and be much more vulnerable to turning/damnation. And subsequently, the gods did all they could to ruin the budding Imperium.

It is for this reason I think that simply naming Sanguinus as Warmaster would be unfair. Horus was chosen for Warmaster (at least I think) mostly because he was able to study under his father for the longest time, he was the closest thing the Emperor had to a son. Sanguinus was given a different path, on a different world. At lot of the efforts of Chaos to turn the primarchs was paticularly specific to each one, and so most of what we know was for Horus' benefit. I don't know if what I'm saying will make sense to anyone, but I hope it does.

It may be the Sanguinus would have been able to maintain his righteousness, I don't know enough fluff about him to say for sure and ze_poodle's thoughts make a lot of sense to me as well. I suppose I just wanted to point out that to really answer this question you'd have to change a lot more of the fluff, at least to be fair about it.

Just my two cents.
 
#28 ·
If Sanguinius was warmaster?
Theres no telling what could have happened. Perhaps Horus would have still turned, pride is a mighty tempting thing for chaos to latch onto. The fluff makes it seem some primarchs were already on thier way to becoming evil.
Night Lords were originally Batman but then went into Punisher territory. If I recall correctly the Death Guard werent evil except for Typhus until they were trapped in the warp and turned by Nurgle. I think the books retcon this. Perturabo was intensely jealous of Rogal Dorn and tired of being stuck as "The Fortress guy."
Lorgar was the original chaos guy but that's because the Emperor chastised him for building churches instead of kicking ass.Angrion was already a Khorne berzerker in everything but name. Alpharius, well hes an odd cookie and who the hell knows what he would do. Even if he told you hes probably just messing with yah

Fulgrim wouldnt have been swayed, mainly because Horus used his need for perfection against him. Without Fulgrim turning to Chaos then Ferrus Manus would still be alive.
Magus may have turned or may not have. All we know is Horus ordered Russ to attack him and thats what made Magus mind up.
TL;DR... Who knows but it would be cool to find out.
 
#30 ·
If Sanguinius was warmaster, then the galaxy would be a very dull place really, it would still be more fun than having Gulliman in charge but by far the best primarch for the job would have be Leman Russ as his party to celebrate this would no doubt render his enite legion out cold from drink. I actually thing that one of the unknown primarchs might have been the empirers first choice but then something when wrong and Horus got picked.
 
#31 ·
Russ..... are you serious lol..........him as warmaster would trigger so many civil war that the imperium would just crumble from within...lol
 
#33 ·
I think it would be instering to think about the other races if the Horus Heresy hadn't happend. Tau would have never developed,
eldar would have been wiped out, dark eldar raids would be faster and more brutal, tryiands may have decided that the imperium was to strong and just moved on (or just launched one massive strike without warning from all sides). Orks would be controlled, necrons would have a major fight on there hands and may even be defeated. It would be a complelty different galaxy

I personally think that sanguinius wouldn't have turned, but it really depends how determind the chaos gods were, what the situation was and how loyal sanguinius was to the emperor / wether his mind was strong enough to resit temptation





Later Autarch Varrais
 
#36 ·
ok so ive read all the books and feel that sanguinius would not have been turned. the number one reason that i feel this way is he had no ego or pride when it came to matters with the emperor. when the emperor found him on baal he bent down and acknowledged him as his emperor and savior of man kind. if you read the first few heresy books you find that horus is extremely egotistical. he is also deeply hurt at the emperor leaving the gerat crusade and not even tell him why. actually you find out in thousand sons magnus the red was the only primarch that knew what the emperor was doing on terra. that being said and not to derail this post but i have always thought sanguinius had blonde hair. but in thousand sons he is described as having "hair of the deepest black that framed his face". anyone know what the deal is? thanks
 
#37 ·
that being said and not to derail this post but i have always thought sanguinius had blonde hair. but in thousand sons he is described as having "hair of the deepest black that framed his face". anyone know what the deal is? thanks
It's totally inconsistent. He may be the only Primarch known to dye his hair according to the mood of the writer.

(He's officially blonde)